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Thread: Obamacare, what says the Constitution?

  1. #21
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce MacPherson View Post
    I have news. Even Obama, of course after the fact, admitted those jobs aint comming back. I believe those good manufacturing jobs were moving overseas long before W became President. And even more news, it is'nt taxes that make anyone move a company overseas.
    I acknowledged that bush didn't invent NAFTA. And I agree, it isn't ONLY taxes that resulted in this exodus of jobs. It's cheap labor, lax or no environmental regulations, gov't provided healthcare, and lax safety regs. That's why they call it "free trade" and not "fair trade". Until it's fair trade, we don't have a chance of bringing jobs back home. Can't even get a woolrich or filson made in America anymore.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  2. #22
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    I acknowledged that bush didn't invent NAFTA. And I agree, it isn't ONLY taxes that resulted in this exodus of jobs. It's cheap labor, lax or no environmental regulations, gov't provided healthcare, and lax safety regs. That's why they call it "free trade" and not "fair trade". Until it's fair trade, we don't have a chance of bringing jobs back home. Can't even get a woolrich or filson made in America anymore.
    The sad thing about the present day body politic is those that hold great influence have an interest in us continuing to fight each other from polarized camps. That way they can avoid us discovering how bad the real perdicament is. We seem to be living in an Orwellian world where the by word is " Keep 'em fighting each other. That way, they will stay blind stupid and out of our way."

    Unfortunately, with the decline of good journalism there is a declining ability to sort things out.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  3. #23
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    The sad thing about the present day body politic is those that hold great influence have an interest in us continuing to fight each other from polarized camps. That way they can avoid us discovering how bad the real perdicament is. We seem to be living in an Orwellian world where the by word is " Keep 'em fighting each other. That way, they will stay blind stupid and out of our way."

    Unfortunately, with the decline of good journalism there is a declining ability to sort things out.
    It is right out of 1984. Keep a war going at all times...blind people with patiotism....limit their ability to think freely....ban media, except what you release.....war is peace....good is bad.....black is white.....advanced directives are death panels.....oops.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  4. #24
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    The graph scale is such that one can only read red and blue. My guess is that this represents the party in power in the Presidency. However, how is a split in the party in power shown (Presidency in hands of one party and Congress in the hands of the other)? It seems to me that we had rather significant periods in which this were true. If the Presidency is in the hands of one party and the Congress is in the hands of the other, how many times did a veto or the threat of an override of a veto take effect? Seems significant.

    The fact remains, no one has answered Bob's question. Is a Federal (not states' because of the 10th Amendment) takeover of healthcare a legitimate use of Federal power? I can't find anything in Article 1, Section 8 that allows for this. When I check an annotated version of the Constitution, it's not there either.

    Eric

  5. #25
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post

    The fact remains, no one has answered Bob's question. Is a Federal (not states' because of the 10th Amendment) takeover of healthcare a legitimate use of Federal power? I can't find anything in Article 1, Section 8 that allows for this. When I check an annotated version of the Constitution, it's not there either.

    Eric
    You will not find literal descriptions of much of what government does. Where in the Constitution does it give the government the power to pave roads? To put up stop signs? We the people at one time or another gave our consent for the gov't to do certain things. We (collectively) voted in the people in congress to legislate and control the treasure of the country. If we don't like what they do, we vote them out in 2010, or influence their decisions via letters, town halls, peaceful redress of grievances.....
    There is a distinction between Libertarianism and Anarchism.

    sorry about the graph quality. the shades of red/blue correspond to control of congess, with shades to depict relative weight of majority. Here is the link.

    http://www.theinsaneasylum.com/dubio...ional_debt.pdf

    I'm not familiar with that site, but the graph is one of the nicer depictions. It can be verified easily via numerous official sites if it's validity is in question.
    Last edited by dnf777; 08-16-2009 at 02:27 PM.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Can't even get a woolrich or filson made in America anymore.

    Nor a henway.

  7. #27
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    As a matter of fact, the Federal government doesn't build roads or erect stop signs. While the Feds contribute, it is the states that do all these things. If it's not a state project, the Feds can't build it even if they want it (short of Federal installations).

    However, the current debate on healthcare is really bizarre. Where the usual relationship is usually Feds to the states, this debate focuses on a potential relationship between the Feds and the citizens of the various states. This calls into question 10th Amendment issues.

    Eric
    Last edited by Eric Johnson; 08-16-2009 at 10:35 PM.

  8. #28
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Perry View Post
    Nor a henway.
    What's a henway?? About 5 pounds.

    The only thing that makes sense on this thread
    M&K's HR UH Tucker of Texoma JH
    M&K's SHR Prime Black Angus
    M&K's Miss Jessie Girl JH
    Sir Jacob of Lakeview-Jake
    Freeway JYD

    Mike Whitworth

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    The sad thing about the present day body politic is those that hold great influence have an interest in us continuing to fight each other from polarized camps. That way they can avoid us discovering how bad the real perdicament is. We seem to be living in an Orwellian world where the by word is " Keep 'em fighting each other. That way, they will stay blind stupid and out of our way."

    Unfortunately, with the decline of good journalism there is a declining ability to sort things out.
    Spot on!!
    It amazes me that many will label themself as a Rep. or Dem. when they do this some seem to lose the ability to admit when one of their "side" F**** UP.
    That helps explain how Congress can have an approval rating in the teens as a body, yet unless they are caught with a dead intern in their closet the incumbants all get re-elected
    This polarization allows the politicians to avoid any accountability for what they are doing to our country.

    I'm more of the "Hate em All" affiliation, because they are all screwing us

  10. #30
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    As of late i tend to agree with what you just posted MJH. The party that reflects my views is republican (conservative extremist i suppose you could say) but with all the pandering for votes that goes on and the money power grabbed we are getting bent over and taking it form all sides. If there was a one term limit and no lifelong benefits we may actually get folks that only go into politics to help the country since no one in their right mind would do it for any other reason (I know this won't happen but its a thought)

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