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Thread: Its all a deathpanel, the truth about osamacare

  1. #11
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpaschal30 View Post
    Why in the health care bill is there no plan to increase the amount of providers. Might be the reason the AMA is for the bill. They control who and how many can provide all in the name of supposedly benefiting the patient.
    If there were a shortage of penecillin sould there not be a plan to produce more of it. If there is a shortage of HC why is there no plan to increase the amount of providers. The plan being propoded increases demand for health care without increasing supply. Guess what happens then? That is why this plan is not about health care.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you suggesting that the "gooberment" intervene in private business to increase the number of docs?????
    The AMA has no clout whatsoever to increase the number of docs, any more than the teacher's union can increase the number of teachers. The only way they can do that, is to try and influence reimbursement rates in the positive direction....ie, more pay. It's called the free market system. The fact more Americans aren't going to med school, is they see that gov't and the big blues set wages, not the free market. To many foreign docs, our salaries are fortunes, so get ready to not understand what your doc says anymore. "tank you very much...please come again!"
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    One of the objective of true health care reform has to be breaking the grip that corporate bureaucrats, divorced from any accountability for patient care, have on the delivery of medical services.
    So you want to replace corporate bureaucrats with government bureaucrats. Brilliant! I have never witnessed government run anything more effiently then the private sector. When government is involved the costumer is no longer a customer but is a number and an annoyance.

    How about true reform where we give the purchasing power back to the people and cut out the insurance companies and keep government out of the decisions by having the people pay the doctors directly for minor services and keep insurance for major illnesses.

    In any case the first item should be tort reform.

  3. #13
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you suggesting that the "gooberment" intervene in private business to increase the number of docs?????
    The AMA has no clout whatsoever to increase the number of docs, any more than the teacher's union can increase the number of teachers. The only way they can do that, is to try and influence reimbursement rates in the positive direction....ie, more pay. It's called the free market system. The fact more Americans aren't going to med school, is they see that gov't and the big blues set wages, not the free market. To many foreign docs, our salaries are fortunes, so get ready to not understand what your doc says anymore. "tank you very much...please come again!"
    If you think we are short of Drs. now, wait till we add 50,000,000 plus patients to the healthcare dole, oops, I meant roll.

    The reason "the Obama" will ram anything through is because once it's in, they will continue to tack on more items as we go along.....forever!!
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  4. #14
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by code3retrievers View Post
    So you want to replace corporate bureaucrats with government bureaucrats. Brilliant! I have never witnessed government run anything more effiently then the private sector. When government is involved the costumer is no longer a customer but is a number and an annoyance.

    How about true reform where we give the purchasing power back to the people and cut out the insurance companies and keep government out of the decisions by having the people pay the doctors directly for minor services and keep insurance for major illnesses.

    In any case the first item should be tort reform.
    Actually, I pretty happy with the managed care approach as long as the companies are held liable for the medical impacts of their decisions. The biggest problem is that they are now shielded from liability and thephysician is left holding the bag on decisions the corporate bureaucrats make.

    Quote Originally Posted by tpaschal30 View Post
    Why in the health care bill is there no plan to increase the amount of providers. Might be the reason the AMA is for the bill. They control who and how many can provide all in the name of supposedly benefiting the patient.
    If there were a shortage of penecillin sould there not be a plan to produce more of it. If there is a shortage of HC why is there no plan to increase the amount of providers. The plan being propoded increases demand for health care without increasing supply. Guess what happens then? That is why this plan is not about health care.
    Ever hear of the golden rule. He who has the gold makes the rules. Doctors are not accountable to patients since they don't pay the bill. Delivery is not the problem, it is who the payer is.
    If you read the bill you would see that there is a fairly substantial investment in efforts to expand the number of primary care providers.

  5. #15
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    If you think we are short of Drs. now, wait till we add 50,000,000 plus patients to the healthcare dole, oops, I meant roll.

    The reason "the Obama" will ram anything through is because once it's in, they will continue to tack on more items as we go along.....forever!!
    RK,
    Agreed. There will be increasing demand, and decreasing supply. Since the free market forces don't apply to the healthcare field, One fix I'm afraid I see coming is a Federal license that will be mandatory, and will mandate participation in Obama-care, at set fees. Doctors will be the first true victims of socialism. True gov't wage fixing.

    All I can say, is if you want to understand your doctor in a few years, brush up on your Chinese and Farsi. Hey, maybe there's a closet niche....Rosetta Stone for Patients in your choice of Farsi, Chinese, Arabic, Russian.....

    Tank you, pliss come again regards,
    dave
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  6. #16
    Senior Member tpaschal30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Actually, I pretty happy with the managed care approach as long as the companies are held liable for the medical impacts of their decisions. The biggest problem is that they are now shielded from liability and thephysician is left holding the bag on decisions the corporate bureaucrats make.


    If you read the bill you would see that there is a fairly substantial investment in efforts to expand the number of primary care providers.
    In 2008 there were over 500, 000 applications to med school and 18,000 admitted. Is there any mention of additional med schools for the "crisis"? No! They are going to encourage residents to go to other fields shortening the supply in other areas. the total number of doctors remain the same.

    source
    http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/2008school.htm

  7. #17
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    RK,

    All I can say, is if you want to understand your doctor in a few years, brush up on your Chinese and Farsi. Hey, maybe there's a closet niche....Rosetta Stone for Patients in your choice of Farsi, Chinese, Arabic, Russian.....
    It's been happening for years. My last four primary doctors were American, Indian, and Indian. The first doc retired. The next two were young just out of medical school. I live in a rural area and since my doc retired I can only get what is available at our clinic here. Seems like lots of young foreign doctors coming and going...
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  8. #18
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    RK,
    Agreed. There will be increasing demand, and decreasing supply. Since the free market forces don't apply to the healthcare field, One fix I'm afraid I see coming is a Federal license that will be mandatory, and will mandate participation in Obama-care, at set fees. Doctors will be the first true victims of socialism. True gov't wage fixing.

    All I can say, is if you want to understand your doctor in a few years, brush up on your Chinese and Farsi. Hey, maybe there's a closet niche....Rosetta Stone for Patients in your choice of Farsi, Chinese, Arabic, Russian.....

    Tank you, pliss come again regards,
    dave
    that a real racist comment...my brother went to med school in England an he happens to be of Asian descent...My son's pediatrician is Lebanese and one of the best I have ever found. I hope for your sake you never need a doctor to save your life in an emergency room situation because you dont get the chance to pick and choose based on their ethnic back ground
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  9. #19
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpaschal30 View Post
    In 2008 there were over 500, 000 applications to med school and 18,000 admitted. Is there any mention of additional med schools for the "crisis"? No! They are going to encourage residents to go to other fields shortening the supply in other areas. the total number of doctors remain the same.

    source
    http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/2008school.htm
    As noted in your source, there were about 42000 applicants in 2008. That compares with 46000+ in 1996. The number of applications per applicant has increased.

    The number of medical schools has been increasing annually, but the concerns about shortage are not equal across all specialties. The primary shortages are in primary care positions: GP's, family care specialists, internists, OG/GYN, etc. There are also clear shortages in more rural areas throughout the country. Simply increasing the number of physicians without addressing maldistribution geographically and by specialty would have little benefit. The House bill addresses some of these areas, but more will need to be done. It is also clear that some systemic changes could also improve the efficacy of existing resources. As an aside, there is a fair amount of evidence that medical service usage is driven more by the availability of services than it is by the need for services. As the number of providers goes up, visits go up with no obvious benefit in health outcomes. This pattern was first identified in a book titled Doctors, Patient and Health Care by Hermann Somers in the 1970's and has been repeatedly illustrated since then by health economists.

    Overall, I believe the concerns about the resources needed to treat people who are now uninsured are overstated. The uninsured currently receive care. If they have major illnesses, their medical bills are generally sufficient for them to qualify for Medicaid. If they have emergent needs, they are treated without regard to ability to pay. What they do not receive is appropriate preventive and primary care. Arguably if they did their overall health needs would actually be less over the long term.

  10. #20
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    that a real racist comment...my brother went to med school in England an he happens to be of Asian descent...My son's pediatrician is Lebanese and one of the best I have ever found. I hope for your sake you never need a doctor to save your life in an emergency room situation because you dont get the chance to pick and choose based on their ethnic back ground
    You need to watch what you call racist. I work alongside foreign doctors every day, I don't just "have a brother". I made no reference to the quality or dedication of FMGs, but if you think there's not a problem in many cases of communication, you are very naive. Just because you can pass a TOEFL test does NOT mean you are conversant in a language, and right now, that's all we have.

    Medical issues and decision making are very VERY complex issues, that emcompass technical terms that need to be clarified to patients, and believe it or not, social and persona values often come up in conversations. Those personal interactions require a firm grip on a language.

    I've been to my Grandfather's doc with him several times. As a physician, I COULDN'T TELL WHAT HE WAS SAYING! Now his treatment is always excellent, with no impugning his competency, but not once in 30 years has my grandfather knew what the hell was happening!

    If you are the "racist policeman" of this forum, I can refer you to plenty of comments regarding "Osama" and reference to his ethnicity, if you need to fill your quota of racisism demerits, but you need not look at me.

    Oh, and by the way, last time I checked, they speak english in England. Not sure what the point was?
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

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