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Thread: The WSJ on the contradictions in Osamacare

  1. #31
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    I agree it needs to get out of the employers hands, but not to the government. Patients must be the employer of the providers.
    This really doesn't seem to be such a bad idea, especially if put together with the idea of forming "cooperatives".

    When individuals get their coverage through an employer, they're not real concerned with how much it costs the employer. If they are spending their own money, they would be more attentive to getting the most bang for their buck & fully realizing the cost of this benefit.

    I could even see employers giving some of the money saved to the employee as increased wages. Such a plan would not work if the employer is penalized for doing this by a tax, though. However, if relieved of one very large expense, it could make these companies more competitive in the world market. And the employee should get a tax credit for at least a percentage of what he spends for his own health insurance.

    Keep the govt out of the business of health insurance. Use such an option only as a last resort if nothing else works.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    My own view is that if people flock freely to a public option because it is cheaper and better than private plans, then the private plans will have to figure out how to do a better job or go out of business.
    Last week you reinforced the fears of a lot of folks when you wrote, in essence, "I don't care what's in the bill now...let's get it passed and work out the details later." Now this week you're reminding us that private insurance will have to compete against govt. insurance...another common fear of the masses given that govt. insurance will be administered by the same folks who get to make the rules that oversee the supposed competition and who have already demonstrated that they don't mind going 11 trillion into debt to pay for things they already can't afford. Not exactly fair and not exactly "competition." You're not exactly helping Obama and the Democrats' cause. Good thing the White House shut down their snitch line or you'd be getting some pretty terse emails from Davie Axelrod and da boyz to chill out.
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  3. #33
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpaschal30 View Post
    A socialist won't.

    Everytime marginal taxes rates have been cut federal revenues have risen. Tax cuts have nothinbg to do with what has happened.
    Sorry, but I and many economists don't buy that. Tax cuts don't have anything to do with decreased revenues? That's like saying a hole in the bucket has nothing to do with it not holding any water. Sure it's more complex than that.

    When George HW Bush reneged on his famous "read my lips" promise and raised taxes, that was the beginning of the most prosperous time in modern American history. Not that it alone caused the budgets, but it showed that raising taxes does not automatically lead to doomsday and bankruptcy. His son cut taxes (during a war, which was a first in the history of man) beginning the recession we are now trying to climb out of. It did not cause the recession by itself, but it proves that cutting taxes does not automatically lead to wealth and prosperity.

    Any attempts to simplify taxes and budgets in single variable terms shows a lack of appreciation of how complex national economics are. At any given time, only half of the economists know what the right answers are. The trick is knowing which ones to listen to.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  4. #34
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hew View Post
    Last week you reinforced the fears of a lot of folks when you wrote, in essence, "I don't care what's in the bill now...let's get it passed and work out the details later." Now this week you're reminding us that private insurance will have to compete against govt. insurance...another common fear of the masses given that govt. insurance will be administered by the same folks who get to make the rules that oversee the supposed competition and who have already demonstrated that they don't mind going 11 trillion into debt to pay for things they already can't afford. Not exactly fair and not exactly "competition." You're not exactly helping Obama and the Democrats' cause. Good thing the White House shut down their snitch line or you'd be getting some pretty terse emails from Davie Axelrod and da boyz to chill out.
    I thought I was pretty clear in saying that a public option was only legitimate, in my opinion, as long as it operated under the same rules as a private option and received no financial subsidies for claims or administrative costs. And, sorry, but I missed my conference call with Axelrod to discuss health insurance last week when I decided to have dinner with my grandchildren instead (true statement).

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    When George HW Bush reneged on his famous "read my lips" promise and raised taxes, that was the beginning of the most prosperous time in modern American history. Not that it alone caused the budgets, but it showed that raising taxes does not automatically lead to doomsday and bankruptcy. His son cut taxes (during a war, which was a first in the history of man) beginning the recession we are now trying to climb out of. It did not cause the recession by itself, but it proves that cutting taxes does not automatically lead to wealth and prosperity.
    You need to stick to something you are capable of discussing at an intelligent level. It is a well known fact that when people get to keep more of the fruits of their labor, they labor at a much higher rate.


    Also, Guns & Butter is not a new saying, LBJ did it in order to pass what he wanted while doing the Vietnam thing.

    Also, the 1st Bush was a joke in the POTUS chair, nice guy, just not much of a leader.

    But don't let facts get in the way of making some off the wall statement.

    Do you have a job? You spend a lot of time making posts.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    What planet, what planet?

    JD
    Earth........
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    Mike Whitworth

  7. #37
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=YardleyLabs; And, sorry, but I missed my conference call with Axelrod to discuss health insurance last week when I decided to have dinner with my grandchildren instead (true statement).[/QUOTE]

    Are you braging or complaining?
    M&K's HR UH Tucker of Texoma JH
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  8. #38
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    Earth........
    AAAARRRRGGGH!! You are just like Obama when it comes to misstatement of facts. Insurance companies cannot cancel nor give an individual a 1000% rate increase to run them off if they have an ongoing medical condition. Stop saying they can when they can't. As far as pre-existing conditions are concerned, how many people (the poor insured) do you think that go to the Doc and find out they have a condition and then try to buy insurance to cover that condition. Kinda like buying homeowners insurance after your house in on fire. Give me a break!

    On the planet earth, M&K. consult with RK or others here if you doubt.

    JD
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  9. #39
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    AAAARRRRGGGH!! You are just like Obama when it comes to misstatement of facts. Insurance companies cannot cancel nor give an individual a 1000% rate increase to run them off if they have an ongoing medical condition. Stop saying they can when they can't. As far as pre-existing conditions are concerned, how many people (the poor insured) do you think that go to the Doc and find out they have a condition and then try to buy insurance to cover that condition. Kinda like buying homeowners insurance after your house in on fire. Give me a break!

    On the planet earth, M&K. consult with RK or others here if you doubt.

    JD
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    Generally speaking M&K is right. I say generally since regulation of health insurance is basically a state function and there are limited Federal laws. Most states regulate the ability of insurance companies to cancel policies for reasons other than non-payment of premiums. Most also restrict the ability of companies to raise health insurance premiums based on individual claim experience or even to refuse to renew a policy based on individual experience.

    However, this is actually seldom a situation that arises. Less than 10% of people buy their own insurance. It is much easier for an insurer to cancel insurance for an entire group and there are few to no restrictions on the ability of insurance companies to raise group premiums based on group claims experience. This has little effect on major companies. It is devastating for smaller companies.

    With about 60 people covered under our health plan, I had an employee of three weeks suffer a heart attack that subsequently required surgery and a long rehabilitation process. He never returned to work by incurred a couple of hundred thousand in medical bills under COBRA that were charged to our experience pool. Another staff member went through in vitro fertilization to become pregnant and had multiple children born prematurely. The total cost of that was about $100 k. The impact was that no insurance company would offer coverage when it came time for renewal except our current company which raised our premiums by 80% in two years. It would have canceled us but could not under New Jersey law. This inflated premium became the base from which all other insurance companies calculated our premiums in future years, finally producing a plan that, five years later, had family premiums of $24,000/year for reduced coverage. My experience was pretty typical and is the reason why 3/4 of smaller companies offer no health benefits at all.

  10. #40
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    Do you have a job? You spend a lot of time making posts.
    Do YOU have a job? You spend alot of time worrying about me.

    Yes, I spent the past 7 years as a surgical resident and fellow, working 100-120 hours a week, despite the fed gov't limiting resident work hours to 80/week. (how many professions have their work week LIMITED to 80 hrs?) Now I have a couple of days per week out of the OR, seeing patients, many of whom do NOT work, yet can't seem to find time to show up for appointments, hence my posting time. Thanks for your concern.

    Gainfully employed regards,
    dave
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

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