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Thread: you tube video - intimidation?

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    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
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    Default you tube video - intimidation?

    I was watching a you tube video of a master test last week. During the honor, the handler was kneeling next to his dog and picked up a small branch off the ground - 8-10 inches long and maybe 1/8 inch in diameter. He began breaking pieces off of it throughout the marks being thrown and working dog released.

    I suspect it was just nerves on the handler's part, but then I know many a dog who knows what is 'expected' when they see a 'stick like' object in the hands of their handler.

    If you were a judge and saw this, what would you do?

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    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    tell the handler not to do anything like that again and watch closely in future series
    Darrin Greene

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    tell the handler not to do anything like that again and watch closely in future series
    I agree however I've never seen a trial that had two honors

    I believe in the vast majority of cases the handlers fidgeting is just honest nervousness and or boredom. But there were some cheats { heard numerous stories of a very accomplished guy way up North} that devised numerous subtle methods to gain an advantage.
    Therefore it is best to stand silently beside your dog to remove any question in the judges mind

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    Not that it makes much difference but what was the dog doing?

    What were judges instructions as to the position of the honor handler?

    I'd be concerned about handler kneeling next to dog if akc.
    Last edited by Thomas D; 01-17-2016 at 05:43 PM.
    Tom Dorroh
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    If I was the judge taking care of the honor I would quietly tell the handler to drop the stick.
    This stops the possible intimidation and serves as a warning. I have not seen a stick used but I have told people that were holding their hat or gloves in their hands to wear them or drop them. Had a pro once shaking the change in his pocket. Once warned he stop, one of his subsequent dogs broke.

    Tim
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    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I was watching a you tube video of a master test last week. During the honor, the handler was kneeling next to his dog and picked up a small branch off the ground - 8-10 inches long and maybe 1/8 inch in diameter. He began breaking pieces off of it throughout the marks being thrown and working dog released.

    I suspect it was just nerves on the handler's part, but then I know many a dog who knows what is 'expected' when they see a 'stick like' object in the hands of their handler.

    If you were a judge and saw this, what would you do?
    It's not what I would expect or have 'learned' about regarding ''your games''.? ..However, it is mere conjecture unless you accompany the same clip on here with Your own vision/comments
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

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    Senior Member JamesTannery's Avatar
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    I'm not going to say that I've never leaned over my dog and accidentally let the long lanyard with my big whistle accidentally gently brush the top of his head, just to remind him I'm still here!
    HRCH UH Night Owl's Black Diamond MH "Homer"(500 Point Club)
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    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmaise View Post
    It's not what I would expect or have 'learned' about regarding ''your games''.? ..However, it is mere conjecture unless you accompany the same clip on here with Your own vision/comments
    intimidation is a big no no. That includes using threatening gestures, towering over a dog (that is on honor), and yelling at the dog (some judges include the word 'no' in there, too...but I have a hard time with that ('no, here', 'no bird', etc).

    I would have to look for a long time to find that video - I watched a ton of them. I don't recall if the dog was worried or agitated by the snapping of the stick. I remember through the test that I liked the dog, though. I also don't recall either judge even being nearby or watching the honor.

    As a NAHRA judge, I would have asked the guy to drop the stick and after the test, reminded him that things like that can be construed by the judges as intimidation.

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    Senior Member captainjack's Avatar
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    Can you provide a reference to the intimidation rule?

    Didn't watch the video, but someone holding a stick while on honor is out in my book for threatening gesture. I don't care what the dog did or didn't do.

    I'm interested to know what a handler is supposed to do if he cannot kneel nor tower above (stand). Are they supposed to lie down?
    Last edited by captainjack; 01-17-2016 at 09:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by captainjack View Post
    Can you provide a reference to the intimidation rule?

    Didn't watch the video, but someone holding a stick while on honor is out in my book for threatening gesture. I don't care what the dog did or didn't do.

    I'm interested to know what a handler is supposed to do if he cannot kneel nor tower above (stand). Are they supposed to lie down?
    The OP defines the "stick" as being... a small piece of branch laying on the ground and..... "8-10 inches long and maybe 1/8 inch in diameter"

    Without being there and seeing what happened, I was confused as to how to interpret

    Glad to have the rules expert definitively state that it is an eliminating fault.
    What if the twig was 7-9 inches long?? or if the twig were only 3/32's in diameter could you tolerate that? What would be the threshold that would be acceptable to Glen?

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