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Thread: i hate being in this position....

  1. #1
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    Default i hate being in this position....

    ...ok, so i meet a new training friend, more advanced in training, has a national master qualified dog. we train one day and all goes well.

    second day is different. training went well for me, and coordination of what we each want to do works well. he is experienced at masters, so i'll either follow or simplify my portion of it to teach. i had one set up to try myself, otherwise i deferred all else to him. sure enough, we saw where my dog erred a bit where his succeeded. thats what we are here to do - learn. no biggie.

    so one technical concept was set up and my dog smoked it. his did not. partially (well maybe mostly - forgot to turn collar on) his fault and partially his dog turned him off. BUT, he stopped the dog, walked 150 yds to it and - - well, i'll just say i had to turn my head and bite my tongue. being turned off by your dog at 150 yds is not rectified by walking out there and 2 minutes later slapping it in the face, grabbing it by the head and slamming it down on the ground twice and yelling "SIT" 3-5 times.

    right?? we learn from everyone that correcting a dog more than 4 seconds (or so) after the infraction is pointless.

    i get mad at my dog too, but i vowed long ago (4 dogs ago) to never hit my dog in the face ever with anything except my index finger on his snout - and thats just training to take a treat from hand gently, and it hurts your finger more than the dog. other than that, i never ever hit. nothing is more painful than seeing a dog cringe from an innocently raised hand, it tells the hidden bad secrets.


    perhaps i should have said something, but being the guest and the bird boy for this set up i held my tongue. if it happens again i will simply walk off, kennel my dog and drive away for good.

    i type this as i sit and look at this dog i love so much and wonder how i could ever do anything to break this extreme level of trust and loving bond he has for me.

    maybe raising 2 fantastic and succesful kids has taught me something. actually, raising a couple of great dogs taught me something about raising kids, and that only added to the next dogs.

    sorry for the diatribe folks, but this has really bugged me the past week and i just had to vent.....

  2. #2
    Senior Member Cleo Watson's Avatar
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    Walk away now - his anger management will not improve.
    A true friend is someone who reaches for your hand and touches your heart.

  3. #3
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    I used to coon hunt with guys that would beat the tar out of their dogs and choke em and everything else. I never did beat a dog like that and sometimes they had a better dog than me. If I had a dog that wouldnt perform I wouldnt beat the heck out of it, I just would try other corrections. If that didnt work it just became a pet. LOL

  4. #4
    Senior Member Juli H's Avatar
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    Tough situation to be in.....Perhaps the guy was having a bad day and that is not his norm....for sure it isn't right...

    I would guess that if the guy is heavy handed physically with the dog, he probably is also heavy handed with the collar....(just a hunch). perhaps he could learn a thing or two from you......

    Juli
    God answers prayers all the time. Even the ones we don't know we asked. God is Good (always)

    "There are only two ways to live your life.
    One is as though nothing is a miracle.
    The other is as though everything is a miracle."

    - Albert Einstein

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juli H View Post
    Tough situation to be in.....Perhaps the guy was having a bad day and that is not his norm....for sure it isn't right...

    I would guess that if the guy is heavy handed physically with the dog, he probably is also heavy handed with the collar....(just a hunch). perhaps he could learn a thing or two from you......

    Juli
    good point.

    for instance, i headed out this morning and set up my stickmen only to find i had the transmitter but left the collar on the garage workbench. no biggie. just simplify things a tad and carry on. i have found that a stern "no sir - stop! -or get in here! does just fine in a pinch. all he needs to know is i am disappointed and he doesn't get the reward. i kinda set a "self pride" limit with what i can accomplish with the least amount of collar correction possible, and it pays off for dummy times like today when i forget it.....

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    Talking with a ver experience member of my training group, when I asked for advise he responded; I'll give you advise BUT - I will train my dog the way I see fit, you train your dog as you see fit.

    In the past two years I've encountered a handfull of heavy handed trainers. I've discussed with the majority of them 'why' they saw fit to correct their dog harshly. Most have explained their actions, a couple have alterend their training methods when questioned about their actions.

    When I began this hobbie I was reluctant to use an e-collar, force fetch was not a 'possiblility' and a heeling stick was not to be considered. While responsible use of all of these methods of training are considered MAIN STREAM by our community - they are viewed in another light by the majority of PET owners. If you feel the correction was not appropriate discuss this with the trainer. Don't condem him because his methodology is simply more severe than you are comfortable with.

    This isn't the most politically correct post but it is how I approach the varied trainers and groups that I have been fortunate to train with in the past couple of years. You train your dog, I'll train mine.

    Cheers,
    Ron

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    Like Juli said it would be nice if the guy could learn something from you but my experience is that the "more experienced" don't defer. You dont want to see what this guy is capable of once he is comfortable with you and the fact that you dont object to his "way" of training. His assistance, in my opinion, isn't worth it.
    If you dont want someone to get your goat
    dont tell them where you tied it up.

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    Life is too short.

    If it's going to bother you, then do yourself a favor and go your own way. You don't have a lot invested in this relationship...nip it in the bud.
    Stray labs make great pets.
    Proud member of the FF society.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojoe View Post
    Talking with a ver experience member of my training group, when I asked for advise he responded; I'll give you advise BUT - I will train my dog the way I see fit, you train your dog as you see fit.

    In the past two years I've encountered a handfull of heavy handed trainers. I've discussed with the majority of them 'why' they saw fit to correct their dog harshly. Most have explained their actions, a couple have alterend their training methods when questioned about their actions.

    When I began this hobbie I was reluctant to use an e-collar, force fetch was not a 'possiblility' and a heeling stick was not to be considered. While responsible use of all of these methods of training are considered MAIN STREAM by our community - they are viewed in another light by the majority of PET owners. If you feel the correction was not appropriate discuss this with the trainer. Don't condem him because his methodology is simply more severe than you are comfortable with.

    This isn't the most politically correct post but it is how I approach the varied trainers and groups that I have been fortunate to train with in the past couple of years. You train your dog, I'll train mine.

    Cheers,
    Ron
    i have trained with and watched some very good pros - i understand "heavy" training - but a hand to the face is different, and picking a dog up by his head and slamming him to the ground is different as well, especially a full 2 minutes after the infraction.

    thats my point. i understand "You train your dog, I'll train mine." but only to a point. i dont like watching a pro take a heeling stick to a dog that crept or broke at the line - right when he did it, but i understand it. i am just fortunate to have a dog that doesn't present that scenario.


    but 2 minutes later and hitting in the face is where i draw the line. thats the whole jist of my rant.

    carry on.

  10. #10
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    I have a feeling he was embarrassed in front of you because of his dogs actions and like you said your dog did better then his which didn't help the situation so he might have over reacted so I would give him another chance before you decide not to train with him again. I'm not excusing his actions but just trying to under stand them. When I first started training someone told me never to train when your mad it's good advice unfortunately my ego got in the way and it took a while before I heeded that advice and my dog suffered because of it.

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