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Thread: Cash for clunkers benefits foreign automakers

  1. #11
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Perry View Post
    I consider myself to be a moderate, not far left. But I guess if anyone's views are not far right they must be a lefty.
    Roger, don't you know? If you look in the mirror, and see anything but Rush Limbaugh's fat head or Sean Hannity's "never been drunk in my life" mug, then yes, you are a flaming liberal!

    I've been told all sorts of things about myself, my beliefs, and my errant ways that I never realized until now.

    dave
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  2. #12
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by code3retrievers View Post
    Most people consider them selves as moderates when they probably are not. Since you are so hung up on our former president I can only assume your views are not normal. It is probably unhealthy spending as much time as you do on a former political figure. You may want to focus your energy in the present and stop living in the past..
    What the far right so dearly wants, and can't understand, is we CAN'T forget the past, when it is those very policies that CONTINUE to this day to adversely affect our present economic situation.

    When the bills come in at the end of the month, is it appropriate to say, "gee, I bought that plasma tv in the past, and probably shouldn't have 'cause I couldn't afford it, and still can't...so I'll just forget about it and not worry about these bills, after all, I bought it in the past?"

    Of course not. When I used to be a republican, the part stood for taking responsibility for your actions. Now I see a party trying to dismiss it's actions, and lay them on the new guy's lap. I'm not going to blindly follow any party anymore because they have talking heads telling me they're good for me! I would like to see the former republican congress and president own up to their responsibility, and accept that they created $7 trillion in debt, without any democrats to blame here, placing a choke-hold on the economy.

    That is why many Americans who know what its like to pay their bills can't stop thinking about the previous administration. We're getting the bills now.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  3. #13

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    Tell me how the "right got us into this mess". If you think Bush was far right you don't know jack.

    Bush was a moderate in his fiscal dealings. In fact if he would have stood up and had some stones, he would have put a break on spending. Instead he spent like there was no tomorrow and signed on to the Dems prescription drug program and other reoccurring expenses. (Name one conservative that was for this)

    You may not like his war policy and I can understand that, but true conservatives spoke out against his spending and were called cruel for not wanting another entitlement program.

    Now you guys are all for creating the grandest entitlement of them all and are trying to lay all future debts on Bush. Obama has already added to the deficit and it will only grow.

    This fiasco may have started on Bush's watch but Obama promised fiscal responsibility and so far has not shown any and you lefty's are cheering him on the whole way

    Your mentality confuses me. I will ask it again, what solutions does the left have? How much has Obama's policies added to the dept / deficit?

  4. #14
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by code3retrievers View Post
    You may not like his war policy and I can understand that, but true conservatives spoke out against his spending and were called cruel for not wanting another entitlement program.

    Your mentality confuses me. I will ask it again, what solutions does the left have? How much has Obama's policies added to the dept / deficit?
    Who are the "true conservatives"? Rush, Hannity, Coulter....all I heard from them were slurping sounds for the past 8 years, unless they were cheering stem-cell research moratoriums!

    Don't ask me about leftist solutions. If I wasn't happy about Bush running up trillions in debt, why would I be happy about Obama? Frankly, I think it's too far gone for anything to help, except time, and misfortune upon our competitors. China may become a victim of it's own success.

    My earlier comments may lead one to believe I favor CFC. Not really. I mentioned my neighbor just got a new car with it. Good for him, but I'd rather see that $4500 stay in my pocket, and take my wife to Hawaii for a week and and get a new double-gun for myelf. My point was I'm glad to see that if my money is going to be taken away and spent, I'd rather see it helping fellow Americans than Haliburton execs and Iraqi contractors, which is where the bulk of it had been going.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  5. #15
    Senior Member K G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Perry View Post
    As far as the past administration, they are the reason we are in such a financial mess that we find ourselves in today.
    Roger, if you TRULY believe this (and since you've put it in about a hundred posts, you MUST believe it), then you are NOT a moderate. NONE of your posts indicate any sort of "moderate" stance. NONE.

    Now, since you DO "live in the past" as much as your posts illustrate, you SHOULD be able (willing is another issue entirely) to go back and see what effect Clinton's deregulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac did to the money supply and the credit markets for houses, which have decimated credit markets overall.

    Add to this the $9 TRILLION projected deficit BHO has given us....Roger, Bush 43 is no longer in office....at what point do you think you'll start realizing that we've got an AMATEUR in the White House? How much more in debt/how much more "bailing out" will this administration do before it realizes the HOLE it's putting us ALL in?????

    'Course, you may be flush and none of this affects you. If so, good for you....

    kg
    Last edited by K G; 08-23-2009 at 04:23 PM. Reason: Didn't have the deficit number high enough...
    I keep my PM box full. Use email to contact me: rockytopkg@aol.com.

  6. #16
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Glad to take advantage of the CARS program. Traded in our 1999 Ranger that got 16 mpg (18 highway) for a 2010 Equinox that gets 29 mpg highway with AWD. The Equinox is one sweet machine.

    Good luck finding one anytime soon as the dealers have sold out just about all of them that are on the lot or on order before October. If you think "cash for clunkers" is not helping domestic dealers, take a swing by a Ford or GM dealer's lot. They all are devoid of anything but guzzlers.

    You know the best thing, Bob?--we are making the sheik suffer a bit longer to come up with the cash to buy a fourth wife.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 08-23-2009 at 04:25 PM.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  7. #17
    Senior Member K G's Avatar
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    Before CFC was enacted, EVERY major automobile manufacturer had furloughed or laid off workers and all but shut down their production lines. They were prepared to deplete their inventory by about 70% over a 90 to 120 day period with current sales volume before restarting production, rehiring workers, and attempting to rebuild their business.

    So what did the "brain surgeons" of this administration do? Come up with a plan to use $1 billion of OUR tax dollars to "stimulate the economy" without any concern whatsoever for dealer's inventories and manufacturer's ability to replenish those inventories...nor did they have the infrastructure in place to process the paperwork so that dealers could be reimbursed in a TIMELY manner (one dealer locally had sold 60 CFC deals as of Friday and has not received the first DIME of payment from the Dept. of Transportation). Can you say "negative cash flow?"

    Then, after that $1 billion was used in 1/10th of the time THEY projected it would be used in (it moved that 90-120 day cycle up WAY fast), those same "brain surgeons" said "Well, this plan worked so well, why don't we throw another $2 billion into it ($3 billion total) and see how many dealers we can bankrupt by decimating their cash flow and emptying their lots of their most popular models with no replacements scheduled to be delivered for 60-90 days? Sounds like a plan...LET'S DO IT!!!" Sorry, but I can't even give them credit for thinking even THAT far ahead....

    Son of Cronus and Rhea, I'm glad you're happy with your new vehicle. Sure hope your dealer has got some cash stashed for the next 60 days while he's waiting for reimbursement from the BHO gang AND waiting for GM to get more inventory to him. I would go into all of the collateral damage this "successful plan" was caused, but most folks don't care...all they care about, like you, is that they got their deal done.

    And before anyone says "well, they can make their money off of preowned cars," the CFC plan has pushed the price of pre-owned cars up exponentially and made scarce the type of inventory these dealers can usually count on. A good number of those 500,000 CFC cars that will end up in the scrap heap could have been sold to folks with REAL clunkers (pre-1984) or folks with no reliable transportation at all...but NOOOOOOOOOOOOO...all that matters is the oh-so-slight improvement in the chloroflourocarbon (hmmm...also known as CFCs...I smell a conspiracy....) in our atmosphere and all of the "recycling" opportunities. If anyone thinks that someone with a 10 mpg improvement with their vehicle is going to make them drive LESS, then I've got some swamp land in Arizona you will DEFINITELY be interested in....

    Can't WAIT to see what the BHO buffoons have in mind for their next economic stimulus effort. I keep expecting to hear about road improvement and infrastructure projects to put more cash in people's pockets like it was PROMISED before the election.....

    With baited breath regards,

    kg
    I keep my PM box full. Use email to contact me: rockytopkg@aol.com.

  8. #18
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K G View Post
    Before CFC was enacted, EVERY major automobile manufacturer had furloughed or laid off workers and all but shut down their production lines. They were prepared to deplete their inventory by about 70% over a 90 to 120 day period with current sales volume before restarting production, rehiring workers, and attempting to rebuild their business.

    So what did the "brain surgeons" of this administration do? Come up with a plan to use $1 billion of OUR tax dollars to "stimulate the economy" without any concern whatsoever for dealer's inventories and manufacturer's ability to replenish those inventories...nor did they have the infrastructure in place to process the paperwork so that dealers could be reimbursed in a TIMELY manner (one dealer locally had sold 60 CFC deals as of Friday and has not received the first DIME of payment from the Dept. of Transportation). Can you say "negative cash flow?"

    Then, after that $1 billion was used in 1/10th of the time THEY projected it would be used in (it moved that 90-120 day cycle up WAY fast), those same "brain surgeons" said "Well, this plan worked so well, why don't we throw another $2 billion into it ($3 billion total) and see how many dealers we can bankrupt by decimating their cash flow and emptying their lots of their most popular models with no replacements scheduled to be delivered for 60-90 days? Sounds like a plan...LET'S DO IT!!!" Sorry, but I can't even give them credit for thinking even THAT far ahead....

    Son of Cronus and Rhea, I'm glad you're happy with your new vehicle. Sure hope your dealer has got some cash stashed for the next 60 days while he's waiting for reimbursement from the BHO gang AND waiting for GM to get more inventory to him. I would go into all of the collateral damage this "successful plan" was caused, but most folks don't care...all they care about, like you, is that they got their deal done.

    And before anyone says "well, they can make their money off of preowned cars," the CFC plan has pushed the price of pre-owned cars up exponentially and made scarce the type of inventory these dealers can usually count on. A good number of those 500,000 CFC cars that will end up in the scrap heap could have been sold to folks with REAL clunkers (pre-1984) or folks with no reliable transportation at all...but NOOOOOOOOOOOOO...all that matters is the oh-so-slight improvement in the chloroflourocarbon (hmmm...also known as CFCs...I smell a conspiracy....) in our atmosphere and all of the "recycling" opportunities. If anyone thinks that someone with a 10 mpg improvement with their vehicle is going to make them drive LESS, then I've got some swamp land in Arizona you will DEFINITELY be interested in....

    Can't WAIT to see what the BHO buffoons have in mind for their next economic stimulus effort. I keep expecting to hear about road improvement and infrastructure projects to put more cash in people's pockets like it was PROMISED before the election.....

    With baited breath regards,

    kg
    Got a violin for you, KG.

    Anything that improves the mileage of the fleet and keeps cash out of Saudi Arabia is just fine with me.

    Glad to see you have a concern for the environment, KG. Those junkyards accepting the clunkers must comply with environmental regulation. That includes CFC recapture.

    Those pre-1984 cars--the antique car collectors lobbied hard to exclude them from the bill. They were afraid their "classics" would disappear in some kondirator.

    By the way here is a bit of reading for you:


    http://freep.com/article/20090816/BU...ar-sales-gains
    Last edited by zeus3925; 08-23-2009 at 05:21 PM.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  9. #19
    Senior Member K G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Got a violin for you, KG.
    Save your violin for the dealers that go out of business, Son of Cronus and Rhea. You got your deal...that's all the matters, right?

    Anything that improves the mileage of the fleet and keeps cash out of Saudi Arabia is just fine with me.
    And I'd agree with you IF if weren't for that pesky thing called "math." Folks that buy more fuel-efficient cars are NOT going to keep the same driving style as they did when they got 10 less mpg. Ergo, the net/net "gain" in fuel saved is negligible, capiche? And 500,000 cars out of the 125 MILLION (125, six zeros and two commas....) on the road today is .004%; that's 4 ONE THOUSANDTHS of ONE percent....if you think that's gonna keep cash out of Saudi Arabia OR "improve the mileage of the fleet," you're not dreaming...you're delusional....

    Glad to see you have a concern for the environment, KG. Those junkyards accepting the clunkers must comply with environmental regulation. That includes CFC recapture.
    Glad to see you have NO concern OR understanding for how this whole deal is going to work out for the economy or the environment....

    By the way here is a bit of reading for you:

    http://freep.com/article/20090816/BU...ar-sales-gains
    Since I sell advertising for a living, I'm pretty well aware of where things stand in the automobile business....but thanks anyway. Now, in my effort to improve YOUR perspective on the OVERALL situation, permit me to avail you of the following information:

    http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/p...319/-1/NEWSMAP

    http://www.wbtv.com/global/story.asp?s=10885146

    http://www2.nbc4i.com/cmh/news/local...arities/20428/

    http://donklephant.com/2009/08/05/wh...-for-clunkers/

    Hope you've learned something regards,

    kg
    I keep my PM box full. Use email to contact me: rockytopkg@aol.com.

  10. #20

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    KG,
    The problem with the liberal mindset is, they do not understand the way the real world works. They live in a fantasy land where there are no unintended consequences.

    When things don't work out, they will say that more was needed but the evil Republicans would not let them do enough.

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