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Thread: Cash for clunkers benefits foreign automakers

  1. #21
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K G View Post
    Save your violin for the dealers that go out of business, Son of Cronus and Rhea. You got your deal...that's all the matters, right?
    Actually, my wife got the deal but I get to ride in it.

    I'm not in the business to watch out for the dealer's a$$e$. They are big boys and they can look out for themselves. They could opt out (and a few did) if they thought the program was too much bother.

    Quote Originally Posted by K G View Post
    And I'd agree with you IF if weren't for that pesky thing called "math." Folks that buy more fuel-efficient cars are NOT going to keep the same driving style as they did when they got 10 less mpg. Ergo, the net/net "gain" in fuel saved is negligible, capiche? .
    500,000 cars getting 28 vs. 18 mpg means 149 million gallons of fuel saved per year at an average of 15000 miles per year per car. A car going the same distance at 29 MPG is going 62% further on a gallon of gas than one getting 18. Have someone show you the math. That's less of my money going to Saudi Arabia and to your friend Hugo Chavez.


    Quote Originally Posted by K G View Post
    Glad to see you have NO concern OR understanding for how this whole deal is going to work out for the economy or the environment....
    I have a young nephew that works for GM that just got called back to work because of increased demand. One of the guys I train with is a foreman in an iron mine. He just got called back to work because of a rise in demand for steel. Yeah, I pretty much understand.

    Could the government have done a better job with the paperwork? Yep, no quarrel there.

    As for drying up the used car market, at least in this area the used car market had already dried up long before. Dealers were not selling new cars and there were few trade ins. Prices were already through the roof. I have seen the "clunkers" on the lots and believe me not many would be useful for anything.


    Regards!
    Last edited by zeus3925; 08-23-2009 at 09:38 PM.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  2. #22
    Senior Member Goose's Avatar
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    What is it with you leftists! Cash For Clunkers is a fraud like everything else the government's doing to revive the economy. Try this...get a 3 X 5 card and write "WE ARE BROKE" on it and tape it to the mirror in your bathroom. Read it every morning as you're primping for work. WE ARE BROKE. Repeat 10 times.

    You don't spend more money you don't have if you are broke. It's just more Keynesian hocus pocus. It's fraud! Maybe Ford and GM sold a few more cars. Whoopie! We are broke and we can't afford giving these companies forty-five friggin' hundred dollars per clunker. And then what does the government do? It destroys the clunker! How stupid is that! Sell it to somebody else who can't afford a dopey Prius. Beautiful.

    We live in Cuba now.

  3. #23
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    What is it with you leftists! Cash For Clunkers is a fraud like everything else the government's doing to revive the economy. Try this...get a 3 X 5 card and write "WE ARE BROKE" on it and tape it to the mirror in your bathroom. Read it every morning as you're primping for work. WE ARE BROKE. Repeat 10 times.

    You don't spend more money you don't have if you are broke. It's just more Keynesian hocus pocus. It's fraud! Maybe Ford and GM sold a few more cars. Whoopie! We are broke and we can't afford giving these companies forty-five friggin' hundred dollars per clunker. And then what does the government do? It destroys the clunker! How stupid is that! Sell it to somebody else who can't afford a dopey Prius. Beautiful.

    We live in Cuba now.
    Well I'll be glad to sell you that '99 Ranger for $5000. No rust or serious dings and good rubber. But, it has 200,100 miles on it and the engine is going to need work. In Cuba it would be worth a treasure.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  4. #24
    Senior Member K G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    I'm not in the business to watch out for the dealer's a$$e$. They are big boys and they can look out for themselves. They could opt out (and a few did) if they thought the program was too much bother.
    Good to know where you stand. I'm not a bit surprised. Does the term "trickle down effect" mean anything to you? No?

    500,000 cars getting 28 vs. 18 mpg means 149 million gallons of fuel saved per year at an average of 15000 miles per year per car. A car going the same distance at 29 MPG is going 62% further on a gallon of gas than one getting 18. Have someone show you the math. That's less of my money going to Saudi Arabia and to your friend Hugo Chavez.
    If the .004% improvement in fuel efficiency makes a big difference to you, so be it, math notwithstanding. I guess you chose not to read the link about how folks with better gas mileage cars will now be driving MORE miles, which will mean NO net savings in fuel. I guess common sense is not so common...your money will STILL be going to OPEC...and did that attempt at an insult make you feel better?

    I have a young nephew that works for GM that just got called back to work because of increased demand. One of the guys I train with is a foreman in an iron mine. He just got called back to work because of a rise in demand for steel. Yeah, I pretty much understand.
    Guess you missed the part about the ramp-up that was planned anyway...it just got moved up by CFC. You want to give the BHO administration credit for it, and based on the issues they're having with health care and cap and trade, I certainly see why. Stay tuned...you ain't seen nothin' yet....

    Could the government have done a better job with the paperwork? Yep, no quarrel there.
    Wait a minute....why do you care about the paperwork? Screw the dealer, right? THEY are the ones having to do the paperwork! Do you KNOW anyone working for a car dealer? How 'bout a detail shop? How 'bout any aftermarket parts suppliers that sell them parts? ALL of these folks suffer if that dealer goes out of business because they couldn't get reimbursed from the US Transportation Dept....'course, none of that matters to you...long as you don't know 'em.

    As for drying up the used car market, at least in this area the used car market had already dried up long before. Dealers were not selling new cars and there were few trade ins. Prices were already through the roof. I have seen the "clunkers" on the lots and believe me not many would be useful for anything.
    Preowned is outselling new in this market 9 to 1, at least before CFC. With their lots depleted of new inventory, thanks to the BHO administration getting into the car business, all they have to sell now is SUVs and trucks...and preowned which are harder to come by and more expensive, but I'm sure you read that in the link I provided....but wait, you don't give a crap about the dealer...my bad....

    kg
    I keep my PM box full. Use email to contact me: rockytopkg@aol.com.

  5. #25
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K G View Post
    If the .004% improvement in fuel efficiency makes a big difference to you, so be it, math notwithstanding. I guess you chose not to read the link about how folks with better gas mileage cars will now be driving MORE miles, which will mean NO net savings in fuel. I guess common sense is not so common...your money will STILL be going to OPEC...and did that attempt at an insult make you feel better?
    My milage is more likely to drop somewhat. The milage difference is not going to make much of a difference in the ave. 15,000 miles per year most people drive. I don't buy your arguement, KG

    Quote Originally Posted by K G View Post
    Wait a minute....why do you care about the paperwork? Screw the dealer, right? THEY are the ones having to do the paperwork! Do you KNOW anyone working for a car dealer? How 'bout a detail shop? How 'bout any aftermarket parts suppliers that sell them parts? ALL of these folks suffer if that dealer goes out of business because they couldn't get reimbursed from the US Transportation Dept....'course, none of that matters to you...long as you don't know 'em.
    Yeah, I know people in the dealerships. My brother in law is a sales manager in a Chevy dealership in the Denver area. But still, ain't my job to worry about the dealers.

    You're a true blue Republican, KG. But I can't see how life can be much fun for you given your level of cynicism.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 08-23-2009 at 11:10 PM.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  6. #26
    Senior Member dback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    I'm not in the business to watch out for the dealer's a$$e$.
    This Yardley, is precisely why that Utopian Society taught on your Ivy League campus is destined to abject failure. The "I'm gonna get mine and screw everyone else" mentality is far too pervasive in any society, for any system even closely resembling socialism, to long survive. I am unable to fathom how a man of any reasonable intelligence fails to foresee this as a foregone conclusion. Unless of course, it is an individual who flashes an impressive resume and fully expects all to kowtow to its contents blissfully unaware that it is missing lifes most important element....'reality'.
    "What a difference a week makes. This week I feel like a football coach. Last week I felt like Britney Spears' choreographer."
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  7. #27
    Senior Member K G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    My milage is more likely to drop somewhat. The milage difference is not going to make much of a difference in the ave. 15,000 miles per year most people drive. I don't buy your arguement, KG
    Obviously you didn't read any of the links I provided. It is not MY argument...it is an OBSERVATION, made by folks MUCH smarter than you and I are, that I happen to agree with. That you don't "buy" it matters not to me...and again, doesn't surprise me. We'll let you be the anomaly in the equation and move on...



    Yeah, I know people in the dealerships. My brother in law is a sales manager in a Chevy dealership in the Denver area. But still, ain't my job to worry about the dealers.
    You've made it abundantly clear that you only "worry" about yourself. Got it.

    You're a true blue Republican, KG. But I can't see how life can be much fun for you given your level of cynicism.
    And you're a flaming left wing liberal, Son of Cronus and Rhea....and if my life were "fun" at the expense of other people, I couldn't sleep at night....but apparently that has no effect on you. As for cynicism, try "realism." MY life is not all about me, like yours is for you. If you can't face the FACTS and chose to make up "facts" to fit your own situation, that's on you. In fact, I think dback summed your comment up pretty well:

    Quote Originally Posted by dback View Post
    This Yardley, is precisely why that Utopian Society taught on your Ivy League campus is destined to abject failure. The "I'm gonna get mine and screw everyone else" mentality is far too pervasive in any society, for any system even closely resembling socialism, to long survive. I am unable to fathom how a man of any reasonable intelligence fails to foresee this as a foregone conclusion. Unless of course, it is an individual who flashes an impressive resume and fully expects all to kowtow to its contents blissfully unaware that it is missing lifes most important element....'reality'.
    Have a good day gettin' yours regards,

    kg
    I keep my PM box full. Use email to contact me: rockytopkg@aol.com.

  8. #28
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K G View Post

    You've made it abundantly clear that you only "worry" about yourself. Got it.
    Not the case, KG. My lack of concern for car dealers doesn't mean I think only of myself.

    I've been dealing with car salesmen quite a bit of late. I've worn out of patience for their tactics. We walked out the door as soon as the fiction started. I have less love for them than republican politicians.

    As for the your inability to keep your coffee grinder radio station afloat, I guess you are entitled to your frustration as the car lots have nothing to advertise.


    Quote Originally Posted by K G View Post
    And you're a flaming left wing liberal, Son of Cronus and Rhea....and if my life were "fun" at the expense of other people, I couldn't sleep at night....but apparently that has no effect on you. As for cynicism, try "realism." MY life is not all about me, like yours is for you. If you can't face the FACTS and chose to make up "facts" to fit your own situation, that's on you.
    Real flaming left-wing liberals don't post here. But, I sure ain't a banjo pickin' conservative, either. I'll pay for my own fun, thank you. As for choosing facts--back at ya!
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  9. #29
    Senior Member K G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Not the case, KG. My lack of concern for car dealers doesn't mean I think only of myself.

    I've been dealing with car salesmen quite a bit of late. I've worn out of patience for their tactics. We walked out the door as soon as the fiction started. I have less love for them than republican politicians.

    As for the your inability to keep your coffee grinder radio station afloat, I guess you are entitled to your frustration as the car lots have nothing to advertise.
    Assumption is the mother of all f'ups, bud. You made a couple of really bad ones in your last paragraph here, but if that makes you happy, have at it. You don't seem to be too concerned with the truth overall anyway...


    Real flaming left-wing liberals don't post here. But, I sure ain't a banjo pickin' conservative, either. I'll pay for my own fun, thank you. As for choosing facts--back at ya!
    You're right about some of the REAL flaming left-wing liberals...didn't take much for them to bail here a few months ago. They can dish it out but they can't take it. I'd have a little more faith in you if I just believed you cared enough to see A) another point of view, and B) the facts that support that point of view. But you don't...so...there we go...great comeback, though...very original...

    kg
    I keep my PM box full. Use email to contact me: rockytopkg@aol.com.

  10. #30
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K G View Post
    I'd have a little more faith in you if I just believed you cared enough to see A) another point of view, and B) the facts that support that point of view. But you don't...so...there we go...great comeback, though...very original...

    kg
    FYI--I did read every one of your links. Some of those I agree with-- others not. I am not exactly a a rube when it comes to the auto world. I grew up in Michigan. I have family and friends that are involved in all of the Big Three car makers from management to manufacturing to sales. You can also throw in the UAW if you think that matters. I read Detroit newspapers more or less daily. My perspective may differ somewhat from yours down in the southeast.

    But as an American, I sometimes do what Adam Smith proposed in his Wealth of the Nations. I act in what is my enlightened self interest. If a dude wants to give you $4500 for a $1500 clunker I'm sure that you'd take the cash and run, too. After all, its perfectly American.

    But, KG, your web visage pretty well matches your avatar's--wild and edgy and thoroughly Republican. You make it fun to go toe to toe with you. Don't think you are going to make me a GOPer though. I'd sooner change my religion.

    Regards.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

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