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Thread: Obama Begins His Own Legacy of Rendition (and torture?)

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    Senior Member AmiableLabs's Avatar
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    Default Obama Begins His Own Legacy of Rendition (and torture?)

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...tory?track=rss

    In court papers, Azar said he was denied his eyeglasses, not given food for 30 hours and put in a freezing room after his arrest by "more than 10 men wearing flak jackets and carrying military style assault rifles."

    Azar also said he was shackled and forced to wear a blindfold, dark hood and earphones for up to 18 hours on a Gulfstream V jet that flew him from Bagram air base, outside Kabul, to Virginia.

    Before the hood was put on, he said, one of his captors waved a photo of Azar's wife and four children and warned Azar that he would "never see them again" unless he confessed.
    If this last charge is accurate, then this meets one of the recent definitions of torture used by the Left.
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    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiableLabs View Post
    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...tory?track=rss

    If this last charge is accurate, then this meets one of the recent definitions of torture used by the Left.


    Everthing including Death threats are used to take guys to or best duck hunting spot.
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    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Heck, if it were up to me, I'd make him wear a pork chop around his neck and make him listen to Metallica for 30 hours.
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    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    While left to the end of the story, the following makes this quite different from renditions carried out under GWB:

    "Their case is different from the widely criticized "extraordinary renditions" carried out after the Sept. 11 attacks. In those cases, CIA teams snatched suspected Al Qaeda members and other alleged terrorists overseas and flew them, shackled and hooded, to prisons outside the United States without any arrest warrants or other judicial proceedings.

    The FBI arrested Azar and Cobos with warrants signed by a federal magistrate. And the State Department, Talamona said, asked the government of Afghanistan "for its consent in advance to take these two individuals into custody and return them to the United States to stand trial. They consented to our request."

    On that basis, the arrests are legal under US law. However, if a court finds that the suspect was not fully informed of his rights against self incrimination, his confession could not be used as evidence against him. Similarly, court papers indicate that the individual was forced to fly without clothing while wearing a blindfold and headphones. The court would have to decide if that treatment was warranted by the circumstances. Also different, obviously, is that this individual has an attorney and, despite the story headline, was subject to what would normally be called an extradition -- something that happens all the time and is fully covered by US law.

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    Senior Member Steve Hester's Avatar
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    OOOOOHHHHHH, I got it now. As long as you have the paperwork, it's OK to do the same things that every one wants to hang Bush for. Give me a break!
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hester View Post
    OOOOOHHHHHH, I got it now. As long as you have the paperwork, it's OK to do the same things that every one wants to hang Bush for. Give me a break!
    The difference is actually between night and day. On one hand you have a process fully governed by the law and subject to judicial scrutiny. On the other you have a forcible abduction done without regard for the law.

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    Senior Member Leddyman's Avatar
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    Totally amazing how when it is the Obamacons there is probably nothing to it.

    While if it were the Bush white house it would be the worst imaginable kind of oppression.

    I heard they also threatened to shave his head and stamp his meal ticket NO DESSERT.

    Big difference between terrorists and perpetrators of fraud. Unless this guy was stealing in order to fund terrorism they may have gone a little overboard.
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    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    I don't understand how it is that you fail to see the difference between extradition and extraordinary rendition.

    To put it in plains terms, if representatives of our government break into your house with no judicial oversight and haul you off to a prison where you are held in secret with no access to an attorney and not even an admission that you have been detained, you are the victim of an "extraordinary rendition".

    If the FBI goes to a judge and obtains an arrest warrant, arrests you, places you in a cell, and gives you access to an attorney. You have been arrested. Either way you are in jail, but we fought a revolution for the freedom to be arrested with due process rather than to be kidnapped by the government.

    There are two big issues with this particular arrest. First is the question of whether or not a confession was illegally coerced from the accused. Second is whether or not transporting the defendant nude and hooded was a violation of his civil rights. Both of the issues will be decided in court as they should.

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