The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Gun Dog Broker
Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345
Results 41 to 46 of 46

Thread: More BHO administration paranoia...

  1. #41
    Senior Member TXduckdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Republic of Texas
    Posts
    632

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    We went to war with Afghanistan and al Quaeda in retaliation for the 9/11 attacks. Those were the right wars to launch. I only wish they had been pursued to their conclusion eight years ago so we would not be having to start over now. The issue was to what extent did the attack on 9/11 represent an existential threat to our survival justifying an extraorindary rewriting of our civil liberties. In my mind, the threat was not existential and did not warrant such actions by the administration. What was warranted was finishing the job in Afghanistan and that is the one thing that was botched as the administration pursued other agendas.

    Jeff, I actually agree with some of your points. I think the conflict has been pursued to the best of our abilities. The problem is this conflict is a 2 front war. The politics involved have slowed to a crawl what could have been accomplish militarily, if our forces had been given a green light.

    How do you define existential? When you speak of the 9/11 attacks representing an existential threat that somehow justified a rewriting of civil liberties....don't you think it was morally justifiable to do anything that would prevent another attack? Extraordinary measures were taken to secure this country.....static and pro-active. Measures were taken to prevent security lapses as well as hunt down and destroy the infrastructure that was responsible for orchestrating the attack. In the vernacular....we went after the head of the snake. I believe the national psyche required the Bush admin to do just that and the majority of the American public viewed this as morally acceptable. They saw the threat as the bad guys and America as the good guys. The basic good vs evil. It was the national will to protect ourselves.

    Now liberals in this country do not see the US as being good and definitely have no moral authority to visit destruction on those whom we deem as evil. In fact, liberals resent the fact that America sees itself as superior in any way to anybody. Because of this philosophy, appeasement is their answer to everything foreign policy and national security wise. So they believe there is no justification, existential or otherwise to go after the terrorists.

    Bush chrystallized the national will in his Axis of Evil speech, it was a reflection of the national will...not just he and his admin. Overwhelmingly, the American public supported this. He understood, correctly that this enemy was not about to be appeased in any form or fashion but only understands things from a dominance perspective. That is, dominate or be dominated. Kill or be killed. The libs still don't get this. Despite the beheadings.

    But the libs went crazy and proceeded to demonize Bush. It was so antithetical to their viewpoint they became rabid dogs in their opposition. Like liberals do, instead of staying on the philosophical ground...they proceeded to marginalize and destroy the individual....it's right there in Alinsky's book. They say Bush was incompetent.....but tell me Jeff...has there been any further attacks on US soil? Are not Al Queda pretty much pinpointed in Afghan and Iraq? Have we not pretty much put a hurting on them? Are'nt we in the process of destroying them?

    Now...just what do you see as the extraordinary re-writing of our civil liberties? Have any of your civil liberties been affected? Mine haven't. I dare-say the American public would not know what you are talking about.

    Don't speak of the civil liberties of the captured terrorists....they don't matter.....America has the choice to extend or not extend some, any or all American civil liberties to these terrorists. America has the moral authority to do whatever it wishes as a sovreign country.....you specifically said "an extraorindary rewriting of OUR civil liberties".

    To steal a line from a favorite movie..."Just what ever do you mean, huckleberry"?
    Last edited by TXduckdog; 09-01-2009 at 06:45 PM.
    Train the dog, the ribbons will take care of themselves.

  2. #42
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Western Pa
    Posts
    6,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by K G View Post
    So explain to me WHY this administration thinks it can "win" in Afghanistan???

    Oxymoronic regards,

    kg
    What happened to the republicans being for accountability and personal responsibility? Trying to push blame for Afghanistan off on Obama after Bush's utter failure to complete or even to attempt to complete the mission in A-stan shows lack of BOTH. And Afghanistan was the one 'just' war out of his two.

    It was predictable that these two wars, the economy, and the debt would all be blamed on the guy coming into office, after the web was spun. We're seeing those predictions coming true faster than I thought.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  3. #43
    Senior Member Socks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ypsilanti Twsp, MI
    Posts
    1,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    We went to war with Afghanistan and al Quaeda in retaliation for the 9/11 attacks. Those were the right wars to launch. I only wish they had been pursued to their conclusion eight years ago so we would not be having to start over now. The issue was to what extent did the attack on 9/11 represent an existential threat to our survival justifying an extraorindary rewriting of our civil liberties. In my mind, the threat was not existential and did not warrant such actions by the administration. What was warranted was finishing the job in Afghanistan and that is the one thing that was botched as the administration pursued other agendas.
    I would maybe agree that Afghanistan might not have been handled properly, but here's another thought. Iraq lost the war and had sanctions placed on it by the U.N. Out of this came the oil for food scandal. Also, Iraq would on a reqular basis launch missiles at our aircraft in the no-fly zone. From what I know in the terms of the surrender this would be cause for resuption of the war. Yet, this went on for months if not years and we did nothing about it, but bomb the launch sites. Thinking outside of the box here a byproduct of this is that we ended up fighting most of the terrorist in Iraq vs the terrain in Afghanistan that helped defeat the soviets. On top of the that the pashtun tribal society in Afghanistan makes fighting there even harder. With the political climate in this country there is a vocal core group of people that think we shouldn't fight no matter what and I think this has contributed to not enough troops being supplied in both conflicts along with how they were conducted.

    As for our civil liberites I do think the patriot act went a little to far, but to do nothing isn't a solution either. We were working blind and scared to an extent. Now doesn't the patriot act expire at some point? Not sure on that and if it does, all the politicians have to do is not vote for it again. Even if it doesn't expire all they have to do is, GASP!, do their friggin job and change it or get rid of it. Again right or left they're so caught up in their elitist world and don't really represent us as citizens.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    What happened to the republicans being for accountability and personal responsibility? Trying to push blame for Afghanistan off on Obama after Bush's utter failure to complete or even to attempt to complete the mission in A-stan shows lack of BOTH. And Afghanistan was the one 'just' war out of his two.

    It was predictable that these two wars, the economy, and the debt would all be blamed on the guy coming into office, after the web was spun. We're seeing those predictions coming true faster than I thought.
    Uh...seriously? The Bush admin warned us about Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae and were called uncaring and racists for it. Also, exactly how is Bush himself responsible for the economy when congress has to vote on stuff too? Congress voted to remove some of the safety gates that were in place(under 1st Bush, Clinton, and 2nd Bush) and also pushed for more relaxed lending for things such as homes. Also, have you seen Obama's budget and the proposed health care reform costs?

    This makes my point in a sense. We're pitted against each other when we should really be upset with how our politicians are running the joint. Yes the President has a lot of power, but he/she is not the government all alone. We the people are supposed to have the Congress representing us and I personally dont' think they're doing that great of a job.
    Joe Dickerson

    R.I.P. 4xGMPR HRCH Hunters Marsh Jack Daniels Bubba Jazz MH
    Call Name: JD

  4. #44
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Western Pa
    Posts
    6,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Socks View Post
    We're pitted against each other when we should really be upset with how our politicians are running the joint. Yes the President has a lot of power, but he/she is not the government all alone. We the people are supposed to have the Congress representing us and I personally dont' think they're doing that great of a job.
    Agree with you there, but "we" put Bush and a republican congress in office for 6 years, and they bankrupted the country, got us into two wars, ignoring the one that mattered, then handed it off with blame to the next guy! The last two years were basically dead time, with a do nothing congress, who rubber stamped the budget proposals and gave Bush everything he wanted except Harriet Myers. (in the judicial sense)

    and no, I'm not happy with Obama, and given the chance he may screw things up, but that's yet to be seen. It is inaccurate and deflecting responsibility to blame our current woes on him, however. These are Bush's wars, and Bush's economic policies coming to maturity.

    Would be like me buying a new dog, shotgun, ATV, and truck, then handing my wife the checkbook and bills at the end of the month and saying, "look what you got us into!" (don't try this at home, it doesn't work!)
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  5. #45
    Senior Member K G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    southeast us
    Posts
    5,350

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    What happened to the republicans being for accountability and personal responsibility? Trying to push blame for Afghanistan off on Obama after Bush's utter failure to complete or even to attempt to complete the mission in A-stan shows lack of BOTH. And Afghanistan was the one 'just' war out of his two.

    It was predictable that these two wars, the economy, and the debt would all be blamed on the guy coming into office, after the web was spun. We're seeing those predictions coming true faster than I thought.
    You got all of THAT out of my simply asking the question WHY this administration thinks it can win the war in Afghanistan, which you didn't even come CLOSE to doing....

    Tells me what kind of faith the left has in BHO's ability to lead the country to victory. The game plan is already in place to blame Bush 43 for starting it all.

    Got it. Wasn't an increased presence in Afghanistan a major plank in BHO's campaign? Guess that one should have been painted red....

    Typical response regards,

    kg
    I keep my PM box full. Use email to contact me: rockytopkg@aol.com.

  6. #46
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Western Pa
    Posts
    6,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by K G View Post
    You got all of THAT out of my simply asking the question WHY this administration thinks it can win the war in Afghanistan, which you didn't even come CLOSE to doing....

    Tells me what kind of faith the left has in BHO's ability to lead the country to victory. The game plan is already in place to blame Bush 43 for starting it all.

    Got it. Wasn't an increased presence in Afghanistan a major plank in BHO's campaign? Guess that one should have been painted red....

    Typical response regards,

    kg

    First, not totally agreeing with you does not make me a leftist. You should talk with my liberal friends who have me pegged as a conservative, maybe you guys could figure out together that I'm independent, not ascribing blindly to either party or network of talking heads.

    Second, I don't pretend to know why Obama wants to escalate A-stan. Right after 9-11, when bin laden was within our grasp, was the time to escalate and complete the mission. We didn't know what victory was (is) in Iraq, and I don't pretend to know what "victory" in Afghanastan will be. Maybe we should ask the former Soviets what victory in Afghanastan is? Whatever it is, it damn well better be worth it, 'cause we can't really afford it right now! If you want to know why the administration thinks it can win, you should ask them. My opinion doesn't really matter much.

    Capturing/killing bin Laden would be nice, but largely symbolic. I doubt he is the mastermind anymore. Disrupting their network by employing regional diplomacy and severing their financial supply lines would be the first line in disabling their ability to carry out terrorism. Second, education of the populace and allowing democracy to spread will take time, but will ultimately pay the largest dividend. We cannot force democracy upon people with bullets. Nobody did that for us. Only if you fight and die for it, do you really want, or deserve freedom.

    atypical response regards,
    dave
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

Similar Threads

  1. Swine Flu Paranoia - GDG
    By FOM in forum RTF - Retriever Training Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-01-2009, 08:28 AM
  2. Obama administration to release Bush-era detainee photos
    By Cody Covey in forum POTUS Place - For those who talk Politics in the Gallery!
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 04-26-2009, 07:19 PM
  3. BHO says only government can fix economy
    By Steve in forum POTUS Place - For those who talk Politics in the Gallery!
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-10-2009, 10:28 AM
  4. Do you think BHO will take credit for these jobs??
    By Mike Noel in forum POTUS Place - For those who talk Politics in the Gallery!
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-10-2009, 08:59 AM
  5. What does BHO’s Election Mean for Race Relations
    By badbullgator in forum POTUS Place - For those who talk Politics in the Gallery!
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 11-15-2008, 06:15 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •