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Thread: The Prince of Lies

  1. #21
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpaschal30 View Post
    The 46 million uninsured comment comes from annual surveys of health insurance conducted by the Census Bureau. See, for example, http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/healthday/2008/08/26/number-of-uninsured-americans-drops.html.

    With respect to your other links, the simple answer is yes. Those quotes are routinely repeated all over. However, at no point have i been able to discover any actual reference to where or when Lenin made the alleged statements. It's like the oft quoted statement attributed to Cicero concerning balancing the budget. When you dig, you find nothing but air.

    By contrast, if you look up a phrase such as "From each according to his ability to each according to his need." you will quickly find a source citation (it happens to be Karl Marx in his Critique of the Gotha Program). Interestingly, when I visited Moscow in 1964, this statement was in bold type on the wall of my floor but was attributed to Lenin.

  2. #22
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gutermuth View Post
    Save your breath, if you had a video of Comrade Lenin saying it the left would not believe it.
    Bob,

    When I looked up the first quote it was because it didn't sound like any of the documents that I had ever read by Lenin in my history classes. I simply wondered where it came from. What I found was eight pages of Google links to the quote. I tracked every single one and not one included any source citation. When I look up a quote that is true, I will (almost) always find a source citation with no difficulty at all. The Cicero budget quote, which you once cited yourself, began in an historical novel. It was a fictional statement put into Cicero's mouth by the author, not something Cicero ever said or wrote. That is fairly typical of the origins of apocryphal quotes.

    What bothers me more than undocumented quotes, are those who consider the truth of those quotes to be irrelevant as long as it supports the point they wish to make. That, in my mind, is the line between making a mistake and lying.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Perry View Post
    No, he was too busy trying to figure out a way to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. But he still had plenty of time (8 years) (6 with a majority Congress) to do something about health care and did nothing.

    Obama still has to deal with Iraq and Afghanistan along with a ruined economy that bush left him with and still is trying to put a health care reform through.
    *snore*

    Wake me up when you libs quit blaming W for everything under the sun...
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    Last edited by ducknwork; 04-21-2011 at 06:19 PM.

  4. #24
    Senior Member TXduckdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    The 46 million uninsured comment comes from annual surveys of health insurance conducted by the Census Bureau. See, for example, http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/healthday/2008/08/26/number-of-uninsured-americans-drops.html.

    With respect to your other links, the simple answer is yes. Those quotes are routinely repeated all over. However, at no point have i been able to discover any actual reference to where or when Lenin made the alleged statements. It's like the oft quoted statement attributed to Cicero concerning balancing the budget. When you dig, you find nothing but air.

    By contrast, if you look up a phrase such as "From each according to his ability to each according to his need." you will quickly find a source citation (it happens to be Karl Marx in his Critique of the Gotha Program). Interestingly, when I visited Moscow in 1964, this statement was in bold type on the wall of my floor but was attributed to Lenin.

    Jeff.....this is an actual quote and it's been repeated by so many democrats that the only thing that changes is the #.
    Train the dog, the ribbons will take care of themselves.

  5. #25
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cotts135 View Post
    Whats your problem man? Just because you might have a distant relationship with the truth does not mean everyone does. He asked what is a reasonable question. Because he questioned an assertion made in an article (because he couldn't find any truth to it) that gives you license to ridicule him? If you can't answer the question than say so...................but to go after him personally is just something juveniles do.
    Because, "MAN," he claims everything posted here is a lie unless he posts it, "MAN."

    Not so.

    He is not the "sole possesor" of the truth.

    Perception is reality, so it may be HIS truth, "MAN," but it ain't mine.

    Just because the guy uses words like humvees use gas does not make him right (or wrong).

    He is a professed "secular progressive" and that is not my America.

    And I have as much right to state that as he does to discredit every post on here that goes against his ideology, "MAN!!"

    keep on keepin on.....cause road kill says so!!


    BTW--as far as your assertion that I am a juvenile, I have been dealing with maturity issues since I was 4 "MAN."
    Last edited by road kill; 09-03-2009 at 01:38 PM.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    *snore*

    Wake me up when you libs quit blaming W for everything under the sun...
    Just because I am not a member of the far right or agree with most of their hypocritical principles, it does not make me a liberal.

  7. #27
    Senior Member tpaschal30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    The 46 million uninsured comment comes from annual surveys of health insurance conducted by the Census Bureau. See, for example, http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/healthday/2008/08/26/number-of-uninsured-americans-drops.html.

    With respect to your other links, the simple answer is yes. Those quotes are routinely repeated all over. However, at no point have i been able to discover any actual reference to where or when Lenin made the alleged statements. It's like the oft quoted statement attributed to Cicero concerning balancing the budget. When you dig, you find nothing but air.

    By contrast, if you look up a phrase such as "From each according to his ability to each according to his need." you will quickly find a source citation (it happens to be Karl Marx in his Critique of the Gotha Program). Interestingly, when I visited Moscow in 1964, this statement was in bold type on the wall of my floor but was attributed to Lenin.
    Included in that is 12 million or so are illegals. That ain't American! Another 8 or 10 million can afford it and choose not to have insurance. It is at least a lie by 12 million!

  8. #28
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXduckdog View Post
    Jeff.....this is an actual quote and it's been repeated by so many democrats that the only thing that changes is the #.
    I'm not sure I understand your point. I have actually posted links to the census reports a few times. The 2007 report showed a higher number of uninsured. The number declined from 47 million in 2007 to 46 million (rounded from 45.7 million) in 2008 and most expect that the number of uninsured is increasing significantly in 2009 as a result of job losses. Are you comparing the number being cited to the use of "quotes" that can't be traced back to their supposed authors or to "facts" for which there is no substantiation?

    Generally, it seems to me that, notwithstanding road kill's desires, we could all benefit from questioning some of the "facts" that we use to support our arguments. For me, a benefit of these discussions is that I find myself challenging more of the "facts" being cited on both sides of a number of issues.

    I know that some on this forum are perfectly happy believing that conservatives and liberals are fundamentally different and can never be expected to co-exist until one or the other is driven into hiding. I believe that thinking is complete BS and a sure map for the destruction of a country I love. If there is to be hope for living together it will be based on:
    • commitments we make as individuals to inform ourselves of the facts and reject dishonesty even when it comes from those with whom we agree;
    • commitment to a democratic process for decision making even when we disagree vehemently with the decisions made; and
    • acceptance that people with whom we disagree may love this country just as much as we do.
    Disagreeing with each other passionately is not un-American. We have passionately disagreed with each other ever since our country was founded (witness the battles between the Federalists represented by Hamilton and the Democratic-Republicans represented by Jefferson).

    Only once in our history did we allow our passions to drive us as far apart as we are today. That led to a Civil War which should have taught us that any efforts to start divorce proceedings is guaranteed to end in disaster for all.

    We don't need to agree on issues. We do need to agree on a process that argues facts instead of reducing all conversation to name calling and gotcha rhetoric. This is made more difficult by the demagogues who have managed to convert mindless political anger into millions in their bank accounts. If we let them lead the way, we will all be losers in the end.

  9. #29
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpaschal30 View Post
    Included in that is 12 million or so are illegals. That ain't American! Another 8 or 10 million can afford it and choose not to have insurance. It is at least a lie by 12 million!
    Actually, the number includes about 12 million people who are foreign born. Most of those are naturalized citizens and legal immigrants. Several million are illegal immigrants who are excluded from the current health bills.

  10. #30
    Senior Member tpaschal30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Actually, the number includes about 12 million people who are foreign born. Most of those are naturalized citizens and legal immigrants. Several million are illegal immigrants who are excluded from the current health bills.

    so you are saying their are no illegals in the 46 million.

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