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Thread: The Prince of Lies

  1. #31
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpaschal30 View Post
    so you are saying their are no illegals in the 46 million.
    No, I said that there were several million (the estimates I have seen are around 4 million) illegals in the 46 million uninsured, not the 12 million implied by your comment. The Census Bureau identifies foreign vs. US born, but does not check immigration status as part of the same survey.

  2. #32
    Senior Member tpaschal30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    No, I said that there were several million (the estimates I have seen are around 4 million) illegals in the 46 million uninsured, not the 12 million implied by your comment. The Census Bureau identifies foreign vs. US born, but does not check immigration status as part of the same survey.
    Let's see? According to wiki"Between 12 and 20 million illegal immigrants are estimated to be living in the United States; due to the nature of illegal immigration, the exact number is unknown." Where are the other estimated 8 to 16 million?

    Here is a number



    The 2005 CBO report said that the majority of the uninsured are either illegal immigrants (as many as 12 million), or earn between $50,000 and $75,000 annually (8.3 million), or earn more than $75,000 a year (8.74 million) and elect not to purchase health insurance. That adds up to 29 million of 46 million total.

    Of the rest, approximately 8.8 million are without insurance for four months or less and then return to the ranks of the insured. That leaves some 8.2 million Americans the Kaiser Family Foundation's analysis describes as "chronically uninsured."

  3. #33
    Senior Member TXduckdog's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=YardleyLabs;494135]I'm not sure I understand your point. I have actually posted links to the census reports a few times. The 2007 report showed a higher number of uninsured. The number declined from 47 million in 2007 to 46 million (rounded from 45.7 million) in 2008 and most expect that the number of uninsured is increasing significantly in 2009 as a result of job losses. Are you comparing the number being cited to the use of "quotes" that can't be traced back to their supposed authors or to "facts" for which there is no substantiation?

    Sorry Jeff about not being clear....Obama and other Dems have quoted that statistic many times in public.

    I have also seen analysis that that number....46MM....is highly inflated. There was an article not long back in the WSJ.
    Train the dog, the ribbons will take care of themselves.

  4. #34
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXduckdog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    I'm not sure I understand your point. I have actually posted links to the census reports a few times. The 2007 report showed a higher number of uninsured. The number declined from 47 million in 2007 to 46 million (rounded from 45.7 million) in 2008 and most expect that the number of uninsured is increasing significantly in 2009 as a result of job losses. Are you comparing the number being cited to the use of "quotes" that can't be traced back to their supposed authors or to "facts" for which there is no substantiation?
    Sorry Jeff about not being clear....Obama and other Dems have quoted that statistic many times in public.

    I have also seen analysis that that number....46MM....is highly inflated. There was an article not long back in the WSJ.
    You can see the census data at http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/p60-235.pdf.

    The estimated total is about 46 million uninsured. If you read thedetail in the report you find that there are aspects of that which result in potential overstatements and factors that result in potential understatements. Overall, the Census Bureau believes the number is a good estimate of the number of people who are uninsured for part of the year and still uninsured at the time of the census, but that it overstates the number that are uninsured for the full year. However, they also suspect that it understates the number who uninsured during the census period but have health insurance at the time the survey is done. They believe that the number who have insurance that is inadequate to meet their health needs is not captured. Some studies estimate the number of uninsured and underinsured at being much higher than 46 million.

    I am guessing that this is the WSJ article you are remembering: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124579852347944191.html

    Overall, it notes one study that suggests tht the Census estimate maybe too high by 2.5 million based on methodology. It also notes that the CBO cost estimates may not have included adjustments for changes in state medicaid programs that could reduce the number of uninsured. Both of these factors would have reduced estimates of the cost of the proposed programs if I am reading the story correctly (I don't have time to be more careful now and may have screwed up).


    Quote Originally Posted by tpaschal30 View Post
    Let's see? According to wiki"Between 12 and 20 million illegal immigrants are estimated to be living in the United States; due to the nature of illegal immigration, the exact number is unknown." Where are the other estimated 8 to 16 million?
    The Census analysis of the foreign born uninsured population is at http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/s...ed_fs_2007.pdf

    The total number of foreign born uninsured persons, according to Census data is 12.4 million in 2007 (the most recent year available). That number includes both foreign born citizens and foreign born non-citizens according to the Census report. The non-citizen number includes a mix of both legal and illegal residents. The total number of foreign born non-citizens is less than 10 million. I was not able to find the percentage of these estimated to be illegals, so I would accept the 7+ million included in your post.

    It would not surprise me to discover that the Census undercounted the number of illegals. If you remember, there were actually a number of battles where Democrats fought for using counting techniques to improve the accuracy of the census with respect to illegals. Republicans opposed these technniques. The reason is that the Constitution, in allocating electoral votes and congressional seats, does not distinguish between legal and illegal residents. Thus, an accurate count would inflate the populations of the states where those illegals are resident, shifting political power and Federal dollars toward them.

    Assuming the number of illegal is understated, as you suggest, the Census also undercounted the number of uninsured. However, this would not affect the number of uninsured that would be covered by any of the proposed health plans since those plans exclude illegals from benefits. Note that the majority of non-citizen residents -- legal or illegal -- have health insurance and are not included in the uninsured counts. I think those are the millions that you think are missing, but I'm not sure.

  5. #35
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Yep, you sure got us on that one, holy smokes!!

    Oh, BTW, it's pretty hard to talk without a teleprompter too, isn't it??
    Most people would appreciate a teleprompter if they were doing any kind of public speaking --you ought to try it sometime without.
    Zeus

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  6. #36
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    you would assume if your job was to speak to the public you would actually be able to do it. Not read a speech that someone else prepared for you.

  7. #37
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Most people would appreciate a teleprompter if they were doing any kind of public speaking --you ought to try it sometime without.
    I do speak to large groups, often.

    I know my subject matter, and rehearse my presentations.

    NO teleprompter!!

    You ought to try it sometime, with knowledge of your subject!!
    Last edited by road kill; 09-04-2009 at 08:27 AM.
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  8. #38
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    Ventriloquist dummies just say what the guy with the hand in his butt wants him to say.

    Just sayin...
    ________
    CHEAPEST VAPORIZER
    Last edited by ducknwork; 04-21-2011 at 05:20 PM.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Steve Hester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    Ventriloquist dummies just say what the guy with the hand in his butt wants him to say.

    Just sayin...
    I don't care who ya are. That right there is funny.......
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." - Thomas Jefferson

  10. #40
    Senior Member cotts135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Because, "MAN," he claims everything posted here is a lie unless he posts it, "MAN."
    Can you show me where he has said that?



    Perception is reality, so it may be HIS truth, "MAN," but it ain't mine.
    Nor does it have to be. You are entitled to your opinion, but not your facts.


    He is a professed "secular progressive" and that is not my America.
    Yeah so what? You have professed to be a right wing radical, neither changes the truth.
    And I have as much right to state that as he does to discredit every post on here that goes against his ideology, "MAN!!"
    You might try doing so without using personal attacts

    keep on keepin on.....cause road kill says so!!


    BTW--as far as your assertion that I am a juvenile, I have been dealing with maturity issues since I was 4 "MAN."
    What can I say to that?

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