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Thread: The Speech

  1. #21
    Member txbadger's Avatar
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    "As noted above, individual coverage prices are extreme. The same is true for small companies. Coverage for an individual through my company plan was $760/month and coverage for a family was $2100. The same plan through a larger company group was $420 for an individual and $800 for a family. A health exchange as proposed would allow smaller companies and individuals to purchase at prices similar to large companies. However, this savings only happens when accompanied by a requirement ensuring virtually universal coverage. Currently, insurance companies assume that individual who are paying for their own insurance only purchase it if they anticipate becoming ill. The people who anticipate being healthy choose to forgo insurance rather than pay the full cost. If everyone buys insurance, the price to everyone with coverage will go down and insurance companies will better be able to predict cost. As a result, they will not need to charge as must of a risk premium."

    Actually small group coverage contains state mandates & with 30 employees would provide guaranteed issue and coverage of pre-x, for most states. That would equate to around a 30% surcharge. A qucik online search for a quote for an individual/family plan vs you state risk pool should provide an accurate comparison. In TX for my age group this difference between the state risk pool, run by BSBS like medicare here, is 33% higher than a similar policy through bcbs. From an insurance companies viewpoint a known risk is the underwritten, full disclosed applicant and not in a group of 30 "strangers".

  2. #22
    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    I stand corrected. I had been looking for the number 30 rather than the word. Of the 47 million uninsured, 30-35 million are native born and the balance includes both citizens and non-citizens. I suspect that is the source of his number plus a desie not to overstate.


    We actually call ourselves both: a democratic republic where the selection of representatives is by vote of the people and the number of representatives in congress is decided by population. The party of Jefferson was actually called the Democratic Republicans.

    Try to buy health insurance as an individual unaffiliated with a company or group. You will find that your premiums are at least twice those charged to a large group and that your ability to obtain coverage is likely to depend on a clean medical exam and will still exclude not only all pre-existing conditions but that your coverage may be terminated at any time if it turns out you had an undisclosed prior condition whether or not that condition had been treated and whether or not that condition was related to any subsequent claims for service. I went to purchase a disability plan once for myself. I discovered that it was cheaper for me to purchase coverage for all of my employees (30 people at the time) and pay the premium myself than it was to buy individual coverage. If you have a serious pre-existing condition, you may not be able to purchase coverage at any price. I went four months without insurance for that reason and only obtained coverage because of a state mandated open enrollment period.


    As noted above, individual coverage prices are extreme. The same is true for small companies. Coverage for an individual through my company plan was $760/month and coverage for a family was $2100. The same plan through a larger company group was $420 for an individual and $800 for a family. A health exchange as proposed would allow smaller companies and individuals to purchase at prices similar to large companies. However, this savings only happens when accompanied by a requirement ensuring virtually universal coverage. Currently, insurance companies assume that individual who are paying for their own insurance only purchase it if they anticipate becoming ill. The people who anticipate being healthy choose to forgo insurance rather than pay the full cost. If everyone buys insurance, the price to everyone with coverage will go down and insurance companies will better be able to predict cost. As a result, they will not need to charge as must of a risk premium.

    The issue for me is that if I felt strongly enough I would buy insurance at any cost. Just as I do now being a small business owner. We choose what we want to cover how much the deductibles are and with what carrier. I have younger guys at the shop who would rather piss the money away on fun stuff than pay for insurance. Its up to them but I agree that if they have a ER visit or some other high dollar issue they will just declare bankruptcy and leave everyone else on the hook. Pretty much like the folks that are in the ER everytime I have to take one of the shop guys or myself. I would guess that more than 1/2 dont have insurance and wont pay.

    So arent we really providing catastrophic care now?

    I want the list or point me to some evidence that people have died from being denied health care. If that was the case BHO would have had the names printed on a backdrop or had the bodies piled up in front of him during his many speeches.
    "Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan

  3. #23
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Amrein View Post
    The issue for me is that if I felt strongly enough I would buy insurance at any cost. Just as I do now being a small business owner. We choose what we want to cover how much the deductibles are and with what carrier. I have younger guys at the shop who would rather piss the money away on fun stuff than pay for insurance. Its up to them but I agree that if they have a ER visit or some other high dollar issue they will just declare bankruptcy and leave everyone else on the hook. Pretty much like the folks that are in the ER everytime I have to take one of the shop guys or myself. I would guess that more than 1/2 dont have insurance and wont pay.

    So arent we really providing catastrophic care now?

    I want the list or point me to some evidence that people have died from being denied health care. If that was the case BHO would have had the names printed on a backdrop or had the bodies piled up in front of him during his many speeches.
    People die all the time for lack of health care. Under Federal law, hospitals and comparable providers must provide emergency life-sustaining care. However, they are not required to provide treatment beyond that. Thus, if you have cancer, but no insurance, no one is under any obligation to provide you with chemo or radiation treatment. If you die as a consequence, no laws have been broken. That happens all the time, and has happened to at least one person I know. In that case, he lost his job because of his cancer, COBRA ran out, and he could not pay for continuing care.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    That happens all the time, and has happened to at least one person I know. In that case, he lost his job because of his cancer, COBRA ran out, and he could not pay for continuing care.

    THAT is what is so screwed up about employer based health insurance. You get really sick, can't work, so sorry...
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  5. #25
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    In situations of TRUE need (yardley's example), we should help people out.
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    Last edited by ducknwork; 04-21-2011 at 05:26 PM.

  6. #26
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    Republicans ? some of whom expressed open contempt for Obama by scanning their BlackBerrys or holding up copies of GOP bills during the speech ? saw the president?s remarks as a Democratic call to arms that belied the president?s oft-repeated calls for bipartisanship.

    "I was incredibly disappointed in the tone of his speech,? said Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.).?At times, I found his tone to be overly combative and believe he behaved in a manner beneath the dignity of the office. I fear his speech tonight has made it more difficult ? not less ? to find common ground.

    "He appeared to be angry at his critics and disappointed the American people were not buying the proposals he has been selling. ... If the Obama administration and congressional Democrats go down this path and push a bill on the American people they do not want, it could be the beginning of the end of the Obama presidency."

    Rep. Mark Kirk (R-Ill.), who is running for Obama's old Senate seat, said, "He talked at us. He didn't listen to us ... It was a missed opportunity."

    Added Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.): "I sat there tonight wondering what the purpose of this evening was. I was hoping to hear the president flesh out a middle ground, but instead we heard platitudes and campaign rhetoric."

    But Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.), one of Obama's most consistent critics, saw some room for compromise. "It was a good speech, the problem is that what he wants and what they've written are two totally different things," said Coburn, an OB-GYN. ?I'm willing to compromise to get things fixed. But I'm not willing to put the government in charge because we don't have a good track record."
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    Last edited by ducknwork; 04-21-2011 at 05:26 PM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member tpaschal30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    In situations of TRUE need (yardley's example), we should help people out.
    That is always the case, and was taken care of prior to any social programs. Sometimes people may have to ask, and look for help. You can lead a horse to water......

    As far as not being part of a group plan, there are many associations you can join to get in on better premiums. Of course that would require initiative.

  8. #28
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpaschal30 View Post
    That is always the case, and was taken care of prior to any social programs. Sometimes people may have to ask, and look for help. You can lead a horse to water......

    As far as not being part of a group plan, there are many associations you can join to get in on better premiums. Of course that would require initiative.
    Actually, in his case he would have had to spend himself into total poverty, losing his apartment and piano and moving along the way, and then apply to qualify for welfare and Medicaid. He thought that dying had a little more dignity. He used to come to my house and hold puppies against his liver (where his cancer had come to rest) looking for that puppy breath magic to save what cancer had destroyed. He had no family. My church helped with some money and meals and for the last few months with people to stay with him until the end (He was not a member, but joined toward the end and played the piano at many of our services.).

  9. #29
    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
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    In my simple way of thinking BHO says he know more about running things like GM, Chrysler, Wall Street and so on. Now he want to bother with my piss ant little company. I dont see him giving me anything but the chance to take money away from me and my employees. As best as I can tell he has never even held a job or owned a company. If I have money left I am usually quite generous to charitable organizations and volunteer my time. Folks have come to the RTF with need and folks have stepped up and more than likely in a far superior way of any nanny state well meaning elected official. The more government injects themselves into peoples personal life the worse things get. I keep hearing this nightmare in my head and some guy shows up and says We are from the government and we are here to help.

    Put a plan that pays for those (who truley) cant afford insurance and tell me where to send the check after that go the F*@# away.
    "Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan

  10. #30
    Senior Member Terri's Avatar
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    I just have some questions. How are we going to tell who is legal and who is illegal? If the president doesn't have to show his birth certificate how are we going to require it from the man on the street? Are the legal groups going to fight the government to accept a person as a citizen based solely on his word?
    Why isn't the government involved in car insurance (this might be next- not trying to give them any ideas)? The law in my state says you must have car insurance. So everyone buys some type of insurance. Some people have better insurance than others, but it is a choice based on how much you want to buy. Why doesn't the law just say you must have health insurance and let the free market compete for business? Everyone I know seems to come up with the money for car insurance- even the people I know who don't have health insurance. All my daughters friends who are in their 20's have some type of auto insurance, but most chose not to pay for health insurance. I believe young adults (20- 30) are the group with the highest levels for being uninsured. Our insurance dropped our daughter on her 23 birthday, we couldn't believe she would have coverage that long since she graduated college 2 years earlier and is an adult. She is still in graduate school so she looked around at the prices and decided to buy school based insurance. Not the best, but she is a poor student who wanted to have some insurance. Most of her friends have full time jobs and if the employer doesn't provided insurance they chose not to have insurance. They would rather spend their money at the bars instead of getting some type of coverage. Everyone makes choices some better than others.

    My husbands favorite quote to our kids--"people do not plan to fail, they fail to plan." Maybe if more parents expected more of their kids we would not be a nation of free loaders. Just my 2 cents.

    Terri

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