The Speech

[tpaschal30]

Actually, in his case he would have had to spend himself into total poverty, losing his apartment and piano and moving along the way, and then apply to qualify for welfare and Medicaid. He thought that dying had a little more dignity. He used to come to my house and hold puppies against his liver (where his cancer had come to rest) looking for that puppy breath magic to save what cancer had destroyed. He had no family. My church helped with some money and meals and for the last few months with people to stay with him until the end (He was not a member, but joined toward the end and played the piano at many of our services.).

After a 3 minute search I found this. I'm sure much more is out there.

"Financial Aid for Cancer Patients
Managing Debt Crisis, Health Insurance, and Financial Assistance

© Jamie McIntosh
Nov 11, 2007
Financial Aid for Cancer Treatment, Morguefile.com
Cancer places a tremendous financial burden on patients, even when health insurance is in place. Many organizations can help.

Cancer is an expensive disease to treat. Doctors, laboratories, pathologists, oncologists, and other specialists may send out separate bills for their services. Even if you have health insurance, your deductibles can cause out-of-pocket expenses to strain your budget. After you’ve received a diagnosis of cancer, you may want to meet with a social worker to help you understand the hospital’s billing process. Some hospitals assign a patient advocate to help patients navigate their health care system.

If you are underinsured or uninsured, you may feel tempted to let the bills pile up without addressing their mounting reality. Although denial is a powerful coping mechanism, you must not allow payment deadlines to pass without addressing a payment plan. Many government agencies and non-profit organizations exist that provide financial assistance for cancer care. You may qualify for free or reduced cost cancer treatment if you meet certain qualifications. Explore each resource in this article, and take steps to ease your financial concerns today.
American Cancer Society

The American Cancer Society has several programs to help cancer patients with financial assistance. The Hope Lodge program provides free temporary housing for cancer patients in treatment. The Road to Recovery provides free transportation for cancer patients within their community. Call 1-800-ACS-2345 for more information and referrals.

Hill-Burton Hospital Program

Hospitals that receive construction funds from the federal government must provide some services to cancer patients who can’t afford to pay for their care. Approximately 300 hospitals take part in this program. Call 1-800-638-0742 to find a participating hospital in your area.

Read more: http://cancer.suite101.com/article.cfm/financial_aid_for_cancer_patients#ixzz0QkzVXLMy"

source
http://cancer.suite101.com/article.c...ancer_patients



Sorry about your friend. He chose worldly possessions over treatment. You should be all for that. Freedom of choice.

[TXduckdog]

Why would you "love" a guy who jumps up and makes an ass out of himself?

Joe Wilson said it was a lie when Obama said the health care plan did not include illegal immigrants. John McCain said on one of the morning shows that no where in his health plan did it provide for illegal immigrants.

Roger...maybe not in McCain's health care plan...but in the other plans there sure are....Joe Wilson serves on several committees that provided amendments to the plan "un-insuring" illegal immigrants....and has followed amendments from other committees that have neutered the enforcement side of not including illegals in the coverage....thats why he was so upset.

Perhaps the Prez was not aware of this. I bet he doesn't know, and doesn't want to know the malfeasance taking place in Congress on this crap.

[TXduckdog]

Guys...the more I watch this whole soap opera....I am almost convinced that Obama is being screwed over by his own party.

The Dems in congress are running amok and all the Prez can do is put the best face on it he can....sort of like the "lipstick on a pig....it's still a pig."

[YardleyLabs]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. The man in question is dead. He stopped treatment when he was no longer able to pay. His insurance was canceled after COBRA ran out and he was uninsurable at any price given his condition.

He was unwilling to apply for Medicaid which would, with some delay, presumably have permitted treatment to continue. His situation is not uniqe. Estimates that I have seen are that 10-20,000 people die each year in the US because of their inability to pay for health care. Almost all would ultimately have qualified for Medicaid. However, by that time they are no longer treatable in many cases.

In this case, the man had options but not ones that he was willing to use. For him, rightly or wrongly, death was preferable to welfare. Had he been able to continue his health insurance -- and he was current in all premium payments -- he would have continued his insurance and continued treatment. He probably would have lived another year. In his mind he had paid his way at every step of his life and he was not willing to switch gears. I understand his reaction and might well do the same if faced with the same circumstances. Had he been a little older, he would have qualified for medicare and the issue would have been moot. That is why Medicare was created. We decided as a society that we were not prepared to force our older citizens, who had supported themselves responsibly for their entire lives, to ask for charity to receive the medical care they need.

[tpaschal30]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. The man in question is dead. He stopped treatment when he was no longer able to pay. His insurance was canceled after COBRA ran out and he was uninsurable at any price given his condition.

He was unwilling to apply for Medicaid which would, with some delay, presumably have permitted treatment to continue. His situation is not uniqe. Estimates that I have seen are that 10-20,000 people die each year in the US because of their inability to pay for health care. Almost all would ultimately have qualified for Medicaid. However, by that time they are no longer treatable in many cases.

In this case, the man had options but not ones that he was willing to use. For him, rightly or wrongly, death was preferable to welfare. Had he been able to continue his health insurance -- and he was current in all premium payments -- he would have continued his insurance and continued treatment. He probably would have lived another year. In his mind he had paid his way at every step of his life and he was not willing to switch gears. I understand his reaction and might well do the same if faced with the same circumstances. Had he been a little older, he would have qualified for medicare and the issue would have been moot. That is why Medicare was created. We decided as a society that we were not prepared to force our older citizens, who had supported themselves responsibly for their entire lives, to ask for charity to receive the medical care they need.

The point is there were alternatives and choices. There are charities, federal, and state programs already in place. Nursing home care can do the same thing financially. The man was not forced into anything, other than dieing, and none of us are getting out of here alive.
Medicare and Medicaid also take of those who have not been responsible all their lives. As does welfare.

[Martin]

Actually, in his case he would have had to spend himself into total poverty, losing his apartment and piano and moving along the way, and then apply to qualify for welfare and Medicaid. He thought that dying had a little more dignity. He used to come to my house and hold puppies against his liver (where his cancer had come to rest) looking for that puppy breath magic to save what cancer had destroyed. He had no family. My church helped with some money and meals and for the last few months with people to stay with him until the end (He was not a member, but joined toward the end and played the piano at many of our services.).

Yardley,

this is where tthe system could be fixed and not cost the taxpayers a dime. Your friend had to "lose" everything to qualify for medicade. that is backwards.

Take medicare and first fix it. Make it run like a business. Right now it is funded by taxpayer dollars and no one who uses the system pays into it. Economy 101 says this will not fly.'

Remove all the income restrictions on medicade. Offer it to everyone regardless of income. Here is the part where it can be run like a profitable business. Put a pay scale on it. ex...if you make less than 10,000 a year you pay nothing, trully welfare. If you make 10,001 to 25,000 you pay say 20 per family member. 25,001 to 35,000 you pay 40 per family member and so on. If there are 47 mil uninsured, which I doubt, paying an average of 20 dollars, you get 940,000,000 mil per month. Divide that by 50 states and you get 18.5 mil per state per month. Now, this might not be enough but it is a start. Everyone pays. Money going in abd services paid out. Just apply economy 101, which our polititions seem to know nothing about, and the health care reform might just make it!

As far as the Rep. who called out Obama was in sort speaking the truth. He, Obama, is misleading us. One...This will not cost the tax payers a dime and two he says he wont raise taxes to pay for it. As far as one goes, Who in the heck is going to pay for it? Number two. if you do not get coverage, private or public, you get a penalty form the IRS, ie. tax!

I don't agree that the Rep should have jumped up and shouted but just maybe that is the sort of passion that it will take to straighten this mess out!

Regards,
Martin

[Gerry Clinchy]

I don't agree that the Rep should have jumped up and shouted

In case anyone cares, Wilson did issue a prompt apology; and also personally to the Pres.

[Cody Covey]

Jeff this is directed at you since i see you say it a lot. explain to me how INSURANCE can/will provide care for prior conditions without charging more. Can you get car insurance AFTER a wreck or home insurance AFTER a flood?

[ducknwork]

Martin for prez 2012!

or maybe just medicare czar...
________
PAXIL SIDE EFFECT

[YardleyLabs]

Jeff this is directed at you since i see you say it a lot. explain to me how INSURANCE can/will provide care for prior conditions without charging more. Can you get car insurance AFTER a wreck or home insurance AFTER a flood?

Providing medical treatment is always more expensive than doing nothing. The cheapest option would obviously be to let the sick and infirm die quietly at home. As a society, we choose not to do that. For most people, restrictions on coverage for pre-existing conditions is almost never an issue. We receive coverage through our employers. If our employers change insurance plans, the insurance companies waive restrictions on prior conditions as part of the transition. If a new employee is hired, or an employee marries and enrolls a spouse, coverage is not restricted based on pre-existing conditions, although there may be a 30 day delay before coverage begins. The delay weeds out those who are actively ill and the fact that a specific life event (employment, marriage) had to happen to qualify eliminates the problem of "moral hazard".

"Moral hazard" is at the heart of insurance company restrictions in pre-existing condition restrictions in legitimate health plans. Moral hazard is insurance jargon describing the behavior of a person that doesn't purchase insurance until they expect to have a claim. For example, you don't have insurance and become pregnant. To obtain maternity coverage you enroll in an insurance plan pay a relatively small premium, and receive thousands in benefits. When the baby is born and you are sure he is healthy, you terminate coverage have profited greatly from your brief enrollment. That represents an uninsurable risk. To prevent this, insurance plans normally invoke a pre-existing condition exclusion when you seek coverage not linked to a "life event". For example, you take a new job but decline health coverage even though you do not have coverage under another plan. Six months later you change your mind and request coverage. You discover that you are able to get coverage but that pre-existing conditions are excluded altogether or at least for an extended period of time (e.g. 12 months following enrollment). Plans may also have open enrollment periods when anyone can enroll. The belief is that this reduces the chances that someone is "gaming" the system.

Illegitimate plans operated by predatory insurance companies -- that is, plans written in borderline fraudulent language and designed to minimize benefits paid in return for premiums -- tend to use pre-existing condition exclusions and punitive language concerning undisclosed conditions to plant the seeds for denying benefits when a claim is filed. Under such plans, there might be a simple statement that excludes coverage for pre-existing conditions. In the application, you are asked to list all previous care received and all medical conditions that you have whether or not they have been treated at any time in your life. Subsequent to enrollemnt, you are diagnosed with cancer. The insurance company denies your claims and cancels your policy noting that you had gallstones removed five years earlier and failed to disclose that fact on your application. Predatory companies also tend to offer easy accdss to cheap services but to restrct coverage for types of treatment only needed by patients with more expensive problems.

For individual coverage, as distinct from group coverage, pre-existing condition exclusions tend to be much more draconian, especially if you have not had any coverage at all for more than 30 days prior to enrollment. You may not be able to obtain coverage at all in this circumstance. If you do, you will pay a significantly higher premium because of the concern that you are only enrolling because you know there is a problem.

Legitimate insurance companies are not trying to avoid claims for treatment that is consistent with the needs of the population of covered lives. That risk is pretty easy to estimate. Like casinos, they are concerned about those gaming the system to change the odds because, in that situation, the guy with the weakest defense ends up with all the garbage. No one can estimate that risk. Mandatory universal coverage makes it impossible to game the system and reduces risk for all insurers. Mandatory minimum coverage levels make it harder for predatory insurance companies to game the system by offering services that are generally only relevant for high cost patients (e.g. restricted coverage for radiation therapy to keep cancer patients from enrolling).