Obama: "We will call you out."

[Terry Britton]

The bill calls for doctors being reimbursed for providing these services. I don't know where you get that the bill calls for a civil service employee to take over that role.

They will start acting like civil service employees when they get reimbursed at rates that won't cover their insurance expenses and student loans. What incentive will they to work after 5 pm? Also, nurses will be leaving the field if they have to take more patients, and get rewarded less.

"Sorry that you are having a heart attack, can you come back at 8 am. Get here early if you want to get a good spot in line."

Show me how a man is measured and rewarded, and I will show you how he will perform.

[Terry Britton]

Did anyone else catch Joe Wilson calling Obama out on lies?

[Terry Britton]

• REVIEW & OUTLOOK WSJ
• AUGUST 29, 2009
Health-Care Secrets
Chris Dodd keeps his Senate bill under wraps.
Obama has promised a "new era of transparency" in Washington, so perhaps he should talk to the Senate about getting with his program. On July 15, six weeks ago, the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee passed an amended $1 trillion health-care bill, with acting Chairman Chris Dodd calling it a "historic achievement." Too bad the committee won't reveal this history even to other Senators, much less to the public.
Three weeks ago Republicans on the committee wrote Mr. Dodd "to reiterate our request for a full copy of the bill as amended, in the four-week mark-up." Mr. Dodd has refused to comply. The Senate bill that is available on the committee Web site is 790 pages long. While that is some 300 pages shorter than the House health bill, that's in part because it doesn't include nearly 200 amendments that passed when the committee redrafted the bill. Amended sections of the bill might as well be written in invisible ink.
The whole process was so haphazard that at one point during the committee mark-up Barbara Mikulski, the Democrat from Maryland, declared: "Giving me language on little pieces of paper on which I'm going to commit the sacred fortunes and honor of the United States for decades, this is not the way to go. We can't do this on the backs of envelopes."
We called Mr. Dodd's committee office last week to ask why the bill isn't posted, and a spokesman explained that it is still being "worked on." Will it be ready by October? "Don't count on it," the staffer said.
Meanwhile, President Obama has been saying that critics are "misrepresenting" his proposals. But who's to know what's reality and what's a myth when the public and Members of Congress aren't able to read a bill that would restructure one-seventh of our economy. We don't have any idea what the bill will cost or how many people it will provide insurance for, because the Congressional Budget Office can't score it. No wonder the public is increasingly skeptical of this entire exercise

[Roger Perry]

Our President is nothing more than a young, well-spoken liberal fascist. He won and he will trump us and the next 4 years will be brutal.

Not as brutal as the last 4 years.

[Roger Perry]

Did anyone else catch Joe Wilson calling Obama out on lies?

McCain said on a morning news show that there are no provisions for health care for illegal immigrants. Therefore Joe Wilson was wrong.

[ducknwork]

Not as brutal as the last 4 years.

Get your waders, boys. It's getting deep in here...
________
Get it on

[Buzz]

McCain said on a morning news show that there are no provisions for health care for illegal immigrants. Therefore Joe Wilson was wrong.

You need to listen to right wing radio. You're one step behind. They don't care what McCain says. Because there is "no enforcement mechanism" in the house bill, Obama is a liar, and Wilson was justified in shouting out.

"If you aren't going to specifically exclude it's almost like permission." Therefore, not including them in the bill does not exclude them...

It is based on this from the Center for Immigration Studies.

Lack of Enforcement in HR 3200

The America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 (HR 3200) is extremely complex and there’s no way to know how the bill ultimately will be implemented. First, it is unclear if illegal immigrants will be required to have health insurance, as would citizens and legal immigrants (green card holders). In its summary of the bill, the Congressional Research Service (CRS) states, “Under HR 3200, all legal permanent residents (LPRs), non-immigrants, and unauthorized aliens who meet the substantial presence test… would be required to obtain health insurance.”1 Substantial presence is defined as having been in the United States for at least 31 days during the current year and at least 183 days during the current year and previous two years. No mention is made of legal status in the legislation for determining substantial presence.

The legislation offers affordable premium credits, or more simply affordability credits, to persons with low incomes who meet the substantial presence criteria. Under HR 3200, individuals would use the newly created Health Insurance Exchange to get affordability credits or to enroll in the to-be-created government-provided health insurance program often referred to as the “public option.” The credits are based on a sliding scale, with lower-income people getting a larger credit. The income ceiling for the credits and public option is 400 percent of the poverty level. Section 246 of HR 3200 states, “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”2 But as CRS points out, “HR 3200 does not contain any restrictions on non-citizens — whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently — participating in the Exchange.”3 So it would seem that illegal immigrants, along with some temporary workers and visitors, would be required to have insurance and could use the Exchange, despite a bar on them receiving taxpayer-financed affordable premium credits.

Even so, the bill does not include any means of determining legal status for those attempting to receive the affordability credits or the public option. Most similar means-tested programs require use of the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) program to prevent illegal immigrants or other ineligible non-citizens from getting benefits. The SAVE program is currently used to verify immigrant eligibility for 71 other means-tested programs of this kind. However, on July 16, an amendment by Rep. Dean Heller (R-Nev.) that would have required the use of the SAVE program to prevent illegal immigrants from receiving the affordability credits was defeated by the House Ways and Means Committee. At present, there seems little to prevent illegal immigrants from accessing the proposed taxpayer-subsidized health insurance.

So even though:

Section 246 of HR 3200 states, “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

Since it isn't means tested, and because those who are legally here will be required to carry insurance, and they will have access to the exchange to shop for a policy, Obama is a liar because they are not means tested by SAVE. I'm not sure why they should means test someone who is not eligible for benefits, but that's what they are saying...

[YardleyLabs]

Buzz, Henry, Yardley - I noticed you all avoid this question. We can't have an open discussion by cherry picking questions.

Will you all be called out by Obama for opposing this Czar?

Or do you all support everything about Obama?

I guess I don't see the relevance of his appointment to the topic of this thread. I know very little about the man. I have no sympathy for his position on hunting (obviously). I have equally little sympathy for evangelicals and right to lifers who want the government to use its power to further their positions. However, that does not mean I believe they should be excluded from government. It's a big tent and will include people with lots of different and often conflicting beliefs.

[Julie R.]

To my mind the President did nothing but a bunch of tub thumping about how great this health care reform will be and that cleaning up all the waste and fraud in the current system will pay for it. So if there's so much waste and fraud in the current system why doesn't he fix that? And then come back and build on that success? I think he truly believes his pathetic fire and brimstone speeches help him win friends and influence people. He's an empty windbag but such an unbelievable narcissist, he just likes the sound of his own voice booming out.

We don't even live in Cuba now; we live in North Korea.

[Marvin S]

To my mind the President did nothing but a bunch of tub thumping about how great this health care reform will be and that cleaning up all the waste and fraud in the current system will pay for it. So if there's so much waste and fraud in the current system why doesn't he fix that? And then come back and build on that success? I think he truly believes his pathetic fire and brimstone speeches help him win friends and influence people. He's an empty windbag but such an unbelievable narcissist, he just likes the sound of his own voice booming out.

We don't even live in Cuba now; we live in North Korea.

I didn't listen to the speech - my quota of Obongo BS was exceeded the day he filed for POTUS.

But my son who voted against McCain did, his comment is both sides are lying. I agree with Julie, fix the waste first & then come back with something more substantative.