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Thread: leave ACORNS FOR THE DEER

  1. #21
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Amrein View Post
    So Jeff do you approve of prostitution, pay for sex with underage girls, aiding undocumented aliens and tax evasion and lying on legal documents ? All this advice from a organization that receives federal money? I hope the local authorities are forced to look into this and the appropriate charges are filed.
    First, the underage aspect was never mentioned in the second video because the people basically said that they didn't want to know anything about it and that everything would need to be documented with a complete paper trail.

    Second, one of the things that I have always found interesting is the intersection of crime with taxation. Remember that Al Capone was imprisoned for failure to pay taxes on his ill-gotten gains, not for the crimes that he committed to make money.

    In this case the actor begins by requesting tax advice. The advice he is given is actually pretty good. They were told to set up a business as a sole proprietorship and to deposit all receipts into a bank account and declare the income. They were advised to keep track of all expenditures and to deduct them from revenues to calculate the taxable profit and then to file tax returns making sure that there was a good paper trail for everything done. The woman was told that she could expect to be reported and to have the police called unless her activities were very discrete and did not bother neighbors. When asked about employees, the counselors said that those revenues also needed to be reported and that paperwork needed to be in order. The issue of the employees being illegal aliens and being underage was not brought up since the counselor made it clear that all paperwork needed to be in order.

    All of that advice was good and consistent with the law. What they didn't do was to throw the couple out because they said they were involved in prostitution. I have no problem with that. Attorneys don't throw criminals out who come seeking representation and will answer questions that they are asked concerning what is or is not illegal.

    The problem in the Baltimore office was that the couple was being advised to lie. That did not happen in the Washington office. Figuring out how to classify a business activity using the IRS categories is a challenge even if your occupation is legal. I see nothing wrong with a prostitute calling herself an "entertainer" in filing an income tax return. I'm just happy if the taxes are paid. The IRS used to have a category specifically for reporting illegal income. There were some court challenges on whether or not that violated 5th amendment protections and I do not think that category still exists. Prostitutes, drug dealers, contract killers, etc., are all required to pay income taxes. Even though the original crime may be a matter of state law, failure to pay taxes is a federal crime. How can it therefore be wrong to advise such people on how to comply with the law.

    The only area where I heard the counselors possibly cross the line related to purchasing a house for the prostitute. They suggested that the man could buy the house and rent it to his girlfriend. As landlord he could deny knowledge of what was being done there. They also said that if he wanted to avoid arrest and protect his own reputation, he should not visit the property ever except to collect the rent. If he wanted to continue seeing his girlfriend they said it should be at his own house or in a different location. The counselors did not bite when the man asked if they could fabricate prior year returns to satisfy banks. Instead, the counselors said that all paperwork had to be in order. By the way, there would have been no problem if the couple filed income tax returns and paid their taxes for prior years. There would only be fraud if they prepared returns that were never filed and then gave those to a bank to secure a loan.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    First, the underage aspect was never mentioned in the second video because the people basically said that they didn't want to know anything about it and that everything would need to be documented with a complete paper trail.

    Second, one of the things that I have always found interesting is the intersection of crime with taxation. Remember that Al Capone was imprisoned for failure to pay taxes on his ill-gotten gains, not for the crimes that he committed to make money.

    In this case the actor begins by requesting tax advice. The advice he is given is actually pretty good. They were told to set up a business as a sole proprietorship and to deposit all receipts into a bank account and declare the income. They were advised to keep track of all expenditures and to deduct them from revenues to calculate the taxable profit and then to file tax returns making sure that there was a good paper trail for everything done. The woman was told that she could expect to be reported and to have the police called unless her activities were very discrete and did not bother neighbors. When asked about employees, the counselors said that those revenues also needed to be reported and that paperwork needed to be in order. The issue of the employees being illegal aliens and being underage was not brought up since the counselor made it clear that all paperwork needed to be in order.

    All of that advice was good and consistent with the law. What they didn't do was to throw the couple out because they said they were involved in prostitution. I have no problem with that. Attorneys don't throw criminals out who come seeking representation and will answer questions that they are asked concerning what is or is not illegal.

    The problem in the Baltimore office was that the couple was being advised to lie. That did not happen in the Washington office. Figuring out how to classify a business activity using the IRS categories is a challenge even if your occupation is legal. I see nothing wrong with a prostitute calling herself an "entertainer" in filing an income tax return. I'm just happy if the taxes are paid. The IRS used to have a category specifically for reporting illegal income. There were some court challenges on whether or not that violated 5th amendment protections and I do not think that category still exists. Prostitutes, drug dealers, contract killers, etc., are all required to pay income taxes. Even though the original crime may be a matter of state law, failure to pay taxes is a federal crime. How can it therefore be wrong to advise such people on how to comply with the law.

    The only area where I heard the counselors possibly cross the line related to purchasing a house for the prostitute. They suggested that the man could buy the house and rent it to his girlfriend. As landlord he could deny knowledge of what was being done there. They also said that if he wanted to avoid arrest and protect his own reputation, he should not visit the property ever except to collect the rent. If he wanted to continue seeing his girlfriend they said it should be at his own house or in a different location. The counselors did not bite when the man asked if they could fabricate prior year returns to satisfy banks. Instead, the counselors said that all paperwork had to be in order. By the way, there would have been no problem if the couple filed income tax returns and paid their taxes for prior years. There would only be fraud if they prepared returns that were never filed and then gave those to a bank to secure a loan.
    <<YARDLEY....THIS IS THE COMMON SENSE POLICE. WE HAVE THE PLACE SURROUNDED. DROP THE SHOVEL AND COME OUT WITH YOUR HANDS UP!>>
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  3. #23
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hew View Post
    <<YARDLEY....THIS IS THE COMMON SENSE POLICE. WE HAVE THE PLACE SURROUNDED. DROP THE SHOVEL AND COME OUT WITH YOUR HANDS UP!>>
    Is that what you say when you have no substantive comment? If you are a tax adviser asked to advise someone on how to report and pay taxes on illegal income, what do you do?
    1. Tell them how to report the income and pay taxes to comply with the law.
    2. Tell them to go away because you don't care.
    3. Tell them not to report the income or pay taxes, making yourself party to a crime.
    Personally, I tend to go with option 1.

    BTW, unless the story told by the filmmakers was true, there was no crime and no basis for reporting the couple. All comments made would be deemed hearsay and there is no obligation to report someone for a crime you do not witness.
    Last edited by YardleyLabs; 09-11-2009 at 04:27 PM.

  4. #24
    Senior Member starjack's Avatar
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    how come none of the main stream media is reporting on this. I guess they dont want nobody digging up some unwanted evedience that could come back to haunt that it we have in the white house

  5. #25
    Senior Member Captain Mike D's Avatar
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    [quote=YardleyLabs;497534][quote=TXduckdog;497412]If the Census Bureau hires outreach workers to help count people in the inner cities (as they should), does that mean those employees are now in charge of the Census? The Census is run by the Census Bureau. Thousands of individuals and contractors are hired to help. ACORN offices may or may not have a role. They will not run the Census.

    Damn right they won't!!! They would have but this last little escapade got them booted by the Whitehouse as reported by Fox news 9/11/ 09 @ 6:22
    Mike

  6. #26
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starjack View Post
    how come none of the main stream media is reporting on this. I guess they dont want nobody digging up some unwanted evedience that could come back to haunt that it we have in the white house
    What do you mean? It's been in all my local newspapers, all over CNN, on the local TV news, the NY Times, etc. Interestingly, little to nothing has been reported on the source of the tapes...

  7. #27
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    What do you mean? It's been in all my local newspapers, all over CNN, on the local TV news, the NY Times, etc. Interestingly, little to nothing has been reported on the source of the tapes...
    They were on FOX last night.

  8. #28
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmylabs23139 View Post
    They were on FOX last night.
    It was on a right wing blog yesterday -- what do you expect? It was reported by AP yesterday, by CNN yesterday, and in all the papers this morning, which means stories written yesterday. You seem to be making the point that the MSM are trying to suppress the story. They haven't. They also have not yet fulfilled their journalistic responsibility to question the story.

  9. #29
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    It was on a right wing blog yesterday -- what do you expect? It was reported by AP yesterday, by CNN yesterday, and in all the papers this morning, which means stories written yesterday. You seem to be making the point that the MSM are trying to suppress the story. They haven't. They also have not yet fulfilled their journalistic responsibility to question the story.
    FOX interviewed the people that made the film.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Is that what you say when you have no substantive comment?
    You're right. I was hoping a gentle ribbing would awaken you from whatever leftist flying monkey-induced trance would cause an otherwise level headed guy to write long-winded, lawyeristic (read weasel-ish) defenses of what 98% of the rest of world considers indefensible.

    Let's boil it down to its essence (without the fancy talk jibber jabber):

    A man pretending to be running for Congress and a woman pretending to be a prostitute in his employ walk into a Baltimore ACORN office. The pair tell the ACORN reps that they are planning to traffic in imported underage hookers from El Salvador and need assistance to obtain a housing loan for a brothel while getting around federal and state tax laws all while laundering the brothel money into the mans future congressional campaign. Can you help us? http://dougpowers.com/2009/09/10/aco...mp-tax-advice/
    That is what you're defending? Dude, really.

    Those people should have been chased out of Acorn's office with a f'ing stick; not offered tax advice on how to best launder money from their under-aged sex slavery business. As a father of a daughter adopted from that region, where underage sex slavery is a problem, I find the Acorn womens' helpfulness to be repulsive (and wonder if they would have laughed and joked about what euphamisms to use if the pimp/ho said the 13 underage girls were coming from the 'hood in Baltimore instead of just some spic kids from Central America). As a breather of air, I find your defense of them completely imcomprehensible.

    Is that enough substantive comment for ya?
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

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