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Thread: leave ACORNS FOR THE DEER

  1. #61
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    My point was that FOX apparently had nothing to do with making of the tapes and was being sued. If their lawyers are quick, that suit by ACORN could be their death knell.

    If ACORN personnel have done nothing wrong, then the their firing by ACORN doesn't speak very highly of ACORN's management policies. Maybe the personnel would have a suit as well.

    This could be fun.

    Eric
    pulling up a chair to watch

  2. #62
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Amrein View Post
    From Acorns website front page

    ACORN



    ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, is the nation's largest community organization of low- and moderate-income families, working together for social justice and stronger communities.


    So what part of " Social justice and stronger comunities" does illeagle imagration, tax evasion, sexplotation of minors and prostitution serve ? How does this benifit the comunity ?
    ACORN provides tax advice to members of the community under a partnership that at least used to exist with H&R Block. It is one of their core counseling services which they initiated when surveys indicated that a very large percentage of those eligible for child and other tax credits were not receiving them. They work with the people that walk in. I suspect that the actors were not the first suspected or actual prostitutes seen. I also suspect that they have worked with a number of immigrants -- legal or not -- who want to pay taxes knowing that their ability to prove tax payments may ultimately affect their ability to qualify for any amnesty programs.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    What makes you think that there were no registrations that made it through the system? It is not difficult to get a fake ID that someone could use to vote under one of the fictitious names. I would be shocked and surprised if there were not people who voted multiple times under multiple names. I personally know of at least one felon that voted. I am sure that he wasn't the only one nationwide. I am not saying that any of this would add up to 10 million votes, but for you to say that there is no chance of any influence is incredibly naive.
    Could you please point out where I said that there were "no" fraudulent votes cast? or where I said that there was "no chance of any influence".

    You may recall that earlier in this thread the following statements were made.
    ACORN is more dangerous than the Taliban.
    This group is also loaded with cash...which buys a lot of influence...an oblique power to be sure.

    And...they are totally unregulated.
    Acorn is a damn den of snakes. They hide behind a Byzantine web of inter-connected organizations and non-profits to skirt laws and make it difficult to "follow the money" as they further their crazy-left agenda to achieve a democratic majority capable of voting themselves money out of the minority's pocketbooks....
    If you think for a moment an organization as corrupt as ACORN has no power, you are a buffoon. With the porkulus they've been awarded, it's doubtful this nation will ever again see another believable election.
    ACORN is the most corrupt organization the democrats have ever formed. They have absolutely no regard for the law and you could take a hidden camera into any of their offices and see the same corruption as we saw last week in just two of their shops. Our Dear Fuhrer is no doubt the CEO of ACORN and they take their orders from him. I suppose that means he's ok with kidnapping under-age girls from El Salvador for use as sex slaves in America.

    We should take a flame thrower to ACORN.
    Some factually challenged statements like these could lead someone to think that ACORN is some sort of powerful organization with a great capacity to affect national policy, so, in the interest of getting information, I asked
    If they are so powerful, could someone point to the legislation that they have ever influenced in Congress, the political candidates that seek or get their endorsement, or how much they spend on lobbying annually? As Jeff pointed out, the organization has been around for almost 40 years. Answering these questions should be easy.
    You and RK have now told me that they had a lot of influence on the last election but nothing has been presented to back up this claim. As you point out, a few fraudulent voters are expected on all sides. You do not even say whether that felon you know of was recruited by ACORN. Since you omitted the claim I will assume this was not ACORN related.

    If they break the law, authorities should hold them accountable. As I asked earlier, where are all the voter fraud convictions? Where exactly is all the "influence"? If they are well funded, what influence does that money buy compared to all the other money out there having influence
    Last edited by Henry V; 09-14-2009 at 03:01 PM.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    Some factually challenged statements like these could lead someone to think that ACORN is some sort of powerful organization with a great capacity to affect national policy, so, in the interest of getting information, I asked
    Whew, Henry. You spent a lot of time cut-n-pasting quotes from this thread but you conveniently left one out:

    Given that Acorn has an annual budget of 100 million dollars, I don't know how you can claim that they're powerless. That kind of budget puts them in the same league as the NRA, and in some years it appears to exceed the budgets of the DNC and RNC. Moreover, why would political activist organizations like the Tides Foundation, George Soros, SEIU, etc. donate millions each year to a "powerless" organization like Acorn.
    Care to tackle addressing any of the facts and opinions in that one?
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  5. #65
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    I think that they have been effective in a few areas. They were effective in lobbying for legislative and regulatory controls over predatory lending. They were also effective at lobbying banks directly to reduce predatory lending programs and to get those same banks to provide foreclosure a assistance and credit counseling for customers that were overextended. They were effective along the Gulf Coast in lobbying FEMA to prevent evictions from trailers and to expedite other forms of housing and relocation assistance. They have been effective across the country in lobbying developers and communities for the construction of more affordable housing. They were effective in the 2004 election in setting up programs to assist voters who were turned away at the polls, fielding thousands of calls, assisting people in obtaining and pursuing provisional ballots, and participating in a variety of post-election investigations of activities that had the effect of denying votes to legal voters. Finally, they have helped in the registration of a reported 1.7 million new voters, many of whom voted legally and appropriately in the 2008 election.

    Calling ACORN powerless would be an overstatement. I would say that they are less powerful than the NRA, the pharmaceutical lobby, any of the major political parties, any of the major industry lobbying groups (defense, technology, financial services, utilities, attorneys, etc.), and any of the major media empires which today translates to FOX/Newscorp and a lot of distant seconds. I would say they are more powerful than many of the goo-goo groups (aka Good Government types) such as Common Cause and sweet do-right groups such as the Council of Churches. While they like to claim the power of 400,000 members to indicate voting power, there is little to indicate that they can actually direct a significant number votes in one direction vs another or that they can affect turnout significantly in swing districts. However, this last capability is the one they are trying to refine.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    Could you please point out where I said that there were "no" fraudulent votes cast? or where I said that there was "no chance of any influence".

    You and RK have now told me that they had a lot of influence on the last election but nothing has been presented to back up this claim.
    I will point that out as soon as you point out where I said they have 'a lot' of influence on the last election.

    Hurry-I am holding my breath...
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    Last edited by ducknwork; 04-21-2011 at 05:32 PM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    While they like to claim the power of 400,000 members to indicate voting power, there is little to indicate that they can actually direct a significant number votes in one direction vs another or that they can affect turnout significantly in swing districts. However, this last capability is the one they are trying to refine.
    I doubt they have to try to swing those votes in one direction or another. Being that they are a group that targets low income people, I think those 400,000 votes are firmly planted on the democrat's side.

    It would be similar to the NRA trying to get their members to vote republican. Redundant.
    ________
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    Last edited by ducknwork; 04-21-2011 at 05:32 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hew View Post
    Whew, Henry. You spent a lot of time cut-n-pasting quotes from this thread but you conveniently left one out:

    Given that Acorn has an annual budget of 100 million dollars, I don't know how you can claim that they're powerless. That kind of budget puts them in the same league as the NRA, and in some years it appears to exceed the budgets of the DNC and RNC. Moreover, why would political activist organizations like the Tides Foundation, George Soros, SEIU, etc. donate millions each year to a "powerless" organization like Acorn.

    Care to tackle addressing any of the facts and opinions in that one?
    I'm not sure of the source of the $100 million estimate, but I haven't found any facts that I consider to be any more reliable either. The Conservative version of Wikipedia estimates thei annual budget at $56 million. While that is still a lot of money, its potential for political leverage is weakened by the fact that it seems to be going primarily to hourly community workers rather than to politicians. If anything, I suspect that ACORN is subject to the same types of emasculating patronage disputes that have routinely plagued most community based social service programs. They have too many offices, too many low level employees, and too few managers, lobyyists, and publications to be more effective politically. The people that they are most able to influence are people who live in solidly Democratic districts and will vote Democratic 95% of the time no matter what ACORN does. By contrast, the NRA focuses its money on political contributions and is very quick to reward and punish politicians using the full weight of its finances and its communications network.

    ACORN is primarily in the services business. It is most effective politically when it can embarrass its targets with a turnout of poor minorities with protest signs. That works great at local bank branches, but is less effective in most state houses and in Washington.

    The NRA used to be primarily in the services business until it discovered it could make more money for its officers by playing politics. ACORN was almost destroyed when it turned out that the brother of the founder embezzeled over $900,000 over a period of many years. The brother was terminated, the founder resigned and began paying back his brother's theft, and leadership was heavily disrupted. By contrast, Wayne LaPierre makes more than that every year just for influencing politics. I guess you put your money where your heart is and reap the rewards.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    I doubt they have to try to swing those votes in one direction or another. Being that they are a group that targets low income people, I think those 400,000 votes are firmly planted on the democrat's side.

    It would be similar to the NRA trying to get their members to vote republican. Redundant.
    I think you mean getting NRA members to vote liberal. Exactly my point. Influence over voters comes from being able to change minds, not from simply representing minds that are already made up. The NRA has shown the ability, particularly in primaries, to defeat incumbents that it felt were too soft. You don't have to do that many times to make your point in Washington.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    I am sure that it happens in both parties. That would be naive to think it didn't. Isn't that what I just said?

    I am not sure about New Mexico, but most of the felons around here probably won't be voting republican or especially against Obama, if you catch my drift.
    Google Republican felons. There's quite a list. Of course these are the big names. The small fry repub felons I'm sure make up a fair share of any general population.
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

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