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Thread: Gooberment Motors New Plan

  1. #1
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Default Gooberment Motors New Plan

    How much more tax payer money will this desperate attempt by GM to gain acceptance take? Obviously, the American consumer doesn't trust the government to build anything with quailty as evident in Ford's increased market share over Chevy.

    In the short term, I just don't see how Ford will be able to compete with Gooberment Motors. By proping up a failing company, the government is harming Ford in thier attempt to run thier business like an American company should!

    I don't trust the goobs to be divested of Gooberment Motors by 2012 as they have been trying to tell everyone. Tax payers have bought into saving the UAW an organization that worked very hard to get Obama elected. We will have ownership until a new administration says, "enough is enough".


    GM Offers Refund to Car Buyers to Win Them Back

    MILWAUKEE Looking to regain consumers' trust, General Motors Co. said Thursday new car buyers will be able to return their vehicles within two months of purchase for a full refund, part of a long-awaited new marketing campaign for the biggest American automaker.

    The effort will begin next week, seeking to make connections again with American consumers who may be leery of the company since it filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection earlier this year. Chairman Edward Whitacre Jr. will appear in the initial burst of ads, telling consumers in a folksy, Texan accent he too had doubts about GM when he joined on this summer. But he likes the cars he found, and consumers should too.
    The company's bid to win back customers is a last-ditch effort to survive. GM received $50 billion in government aid to keep operating earlier this year and it has to pay that back to continue operating. To do that, it must sell cars.
    And to make those sales, GM has to change how consumers view it in the marketplace. That starts with showing GM's cars are better than competitors, said GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz, who delayed retirement to head GM's marketing efforts. He said there is a "monumental chasm" between the public's perception of GM's vehicles and the autos in its current lineup, and the "May the Best Car Win" effort aims to change that.
    The company stands behind its cars now and can offer full money-back guarantees, he told reporters on a conference call Thursday. As recently as three years ago, GM would have been faced with a huge risk if it made such an offer, but the company's slate of models is strong and can take on any competitors, especially foreign-made cars, he said.
    "We really are in a position today where we can look anybody in the eye and say 'we are as good as or better than everybody else,'" Lutz said.
    To prove that, GM is putting its four remaining brands Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac and GMC directly against foreign competitors, focusing on quality, performance, fuel economy and design. The Chevrolet Equinox will be featured in advertisements directly compared to the Honda CRV, and Cadillacs will target German luxury vehicles, Lutz said.
    Whitacre's appearance in the ads will be short-lived as GM shifts focus to its brands, away from the corporation, Lutz said. Individual campaigns for the brands will share common elements but the GM logo and the words GM will not appear, he said. Instead, the brands will be the true focus, since consumers' perception of GM is affected by the company's bankruptcy filing this year.
    "We are emancipating the brands and trotting them out in the open," Lutz said.
    GM will allow customers who purchase a new vehicle starting next Monday through Nov. 30 to return it, no questions asked, for a full refund within 31 to 60 days from the date of purchase. The vehicles must not have more than 4,000 miles on them and the drivers must be current on their payments. Cars will also be under GM's 100,000-mile five-year powertrain warranty.
    The offer applies to brands such as Chevrolet, GMAC, Buick and Cadillac. The Pontiac brand, which GM is phasing out, is not eligible. Leased vehicles are also ineligible.
    AP Auto Writer Kimberly S. Johnson contributed to this report from Detroit
     
    Last edited by Franco; 09-11-2009 at 09:31 AM.
    "Well, when I went off to college, the guys I used to hang with were pumping gas and voting Democrat. Today they're still pumping gas and voting Democrat. Guess the Democrats didn't do much for them." Charles Barkley

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    Franco,

    This program is no different than when GM instituted its 5 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty. Of course it is meant to get reluctant buyers to try GM products. However, if GM did not have faith in its products, it but would not offer such programs. They would be afraid it would cost them too much money if their products did not stand up under normal use. The quality of GM cars and trucks have improved so much over the last several years that they can afford to make such offers with confidence.

    Don’t be so sure Ford is doing such a superior job of running their business. A couple of years ago, before the credit market dried up, Ford was forced to leverage every asset of their business in exchange for billions in loans to finance a corporate restructuring. Otherwise, they would have gone into bankruptcy. They currently have a huge debt burden, with very large notes coming due very soon. Have no doubt, Ford is struggling to survive, just like GM and Chrysler. Only time will tell if their gamble pays off.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Bruce MacPherson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackstone View Post
    Franco,

    This program is no different than when GM instituted its 5 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty. Of course it is meant to get reluctant buyers to try GM products. However, if GM did not have faith in its products, it but would not offer such programs. They would be afraid it would cost them too much money if their products did not stand up under normal use. The quality of GM cars and trucks have improved so much over the last several years that they can afford to make such offers with confidence.

    Don’t be so sure Ford is doing such a superior job of running their business. A couple of years ago, before the credit market dried up, Ford was forced to leverage every asset of their business in exchange for billions in loans to finance a corporate restructuring. Otherwise, they would have gone into bankruptcy. They currently have a huge debt burden, with very large notes coming due very soon. Have no doubt, Ford is struggling to survive, just like GM and Chrysler. Only time will tell if their gamble pays off.
    GM dosen't have to be afraid of much of anything with the Feds bankrolling them. Ford did the tough thing when they had to, GM did not and now we get to own a car company. If GM was the only company building cars I guess I'd have to saddle up my horse or walk because I'll never buy a car from them as long as the governments involved.
    "The longer you let a dog go in the wrong direction the more they think they are going in the right direction" Don Remien.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce MacPherson View Post
    GM dosen't have to be afraid of much of anything with the Feds bankrolling them. Ford did the tough thing when they had to, GM did not and now we get to own a car company. If GM was the only company building cars I guess I'd have to saddle up my horse or walk because I'll never buy a car from them as long as the governments involved.
    GM instituted the 5 year/100,000 mile warranty in the 2007 model year. That was long before the government had any stake in them, so I don’t think their confidence in this latest program is bolstered by the government having a stake in them. I think it just shows their confidence in the products.

    Ford didn’t just do the “tough thing,” they took the only recourse open to them. Do you think they would have leveraged all their assets if they weren’t desperate? At the time, GM did not need the money. They had access to enough cash to sustain day-to-day operations. GM became cash strapped when the auto market tanked. The industry went from 17 million units annually to less than 10 million in about 6 months. That is almost a 60% decline. At the same time, the credit market collapsed, and GM could not get access to loans it traditionally uses from time to time for normal operations.

    It’s certainly your right not to buy from GM, but I personally I would rather the government have stepped in to help the U.S. auto industry than see all those workers added to the roles of the unemployed. Personally, don’t harbor such disdain for my government that I shun anything they are a part of. Hopefully, GM will be successful, and buy out the government’s stake on the established time table. Until then, I will continue to support GM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackstone View Post
    GM instituted the 5 year/100,000 mile warranty in the 2007 model year. That was long before the government had any stake in them, so I don’t think their confidence in this latest program is bolstered by the government having a stake in them. I think it just shows their confidence in the products.

    Ford didn’t just do the “tough thing,” they took the only recourse open to them. Do you think they would have leveraged all their assets if they weren’t desperate? At the time, GM did not need the money. They had access to enough cash to sustain day-to-day operations. GM became cash strapped when the auto market tanked. The industry went from 17 million units annually to less than 10 million in about 6 months. That is almost a 60% decline. At the same time, the credit market collapsed, and GM could not get access to loans it traditionally uses from time to time for normal operations.

    It’s certainly your right not to buy from GM, but I personally I would rather the government have stepped in to help the U.S. auto industry than see all those workers added to the roles of the unemployed. Personally, don’t harbor such disdain for my government that I shun anything they are a part of. Hopefully, GM will be successful, and buy out the government’s stake on the established time table. Until then, I will continue to support GM.

    Would you believe me if I told you this is far more than a government takeover of one auto maker? If you don't "get it" with this tax payer rip-off, I couldn't possibly expect you to have any concern about the nationalization of the banking industry.

    So my question to you, Mr. Blackstone, is...when will you determine how many freedoms you must have legislated away before you are willing to say 'enough is enough'? When will this charade of an administration reach the point of having gored your ox? OR...doesn't what's happening relate to this nation's Constitution in your view?

    But then I suspect folks with your myopic view of the world around you think the tea parties are conducted by a gang of radicals, only concerned about getting their mugs on the evening news; You can't see they might just be as concerned for your welfare as their own, and are fighting to keep the USA they and their fellow Americans were brought up to believe in...with the same freedoms and liberty their parents enjoyed.

    Wake up Mr. Blackstone. What is happening is far more than suddenly having another Carter-type in the oval office. These aren't just a form of "the Democrats now having their turn." This is without question an attempt by every liberal-turned-socialist to turn this nation into a fascist society.

    If you happen to be thinking that's a long way off, let me give you a clue, so you'll know what you seem to be blinded to. When the Algore bill on carbon credits, and the secret ballot to allow the union thugs to control your workplace, and the universal healthcare program are signed into law by the self-annointed messiah, you will know it's too late. Humpty Dumpty will have fallen, and your family, heirs, and friends will be living in a different world. You will no longer have to be concerned about Iraq or Afganistan...your war will be a lot closer.

    Is that when you'll say "enuff is enuff?" Good luck.

    UB
    When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

  6. #6
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bill View Post
    Would you believe me if I told you this is far more than a government takeover of one auto maker? If you don't "get it" with this tax payer rip-off, I couldn't possibly expect you to have any concern about the nationalization of the banking industry.

    So my question to you, Mr. Blackstone, is...when will you determine how many freedoms you must have legislated away before you are willing to say 'enough is enough'? When will this charade of an administration reach the point of having gored your ox? OR...doesn't what's happening relate to this nation's Constitution in your view?

    But then I suspect folks with your myopic view of the world around you think the tea parties are conducted by a gang of radicals, only concerned about getting their mugs on the evening news; You can't see they might just be as concerned for your welfare as their own, and are fighting to keep the USA they and their fellow Americans were brought up to believe in...with the same freedoms and liberty their parents enjoyed.

    Wake up Mr. Blackstone. What is happening is far more than suddenly having another Carter-type in the oval office. These aren't just a form of "the Democrats now having their turn." This is without question an attempt by every liberal-turned-socialist to turn this nation into a fascist society.

    If you happen to be thinking that's a long way off, let me give you a clue, so you'll know what you seem to be blinded to. When the Algore bill on carbon credits, and the secret ballot to allow the union thugs to control your workplace, and the universal healthcare program are signed into law by the self-annointed messiah, you will know it's too late. Humpty Dumpty will have fallen, and your family, heirs, and friends will be living in a different world. You will no longer have to be concerned about Iraq or Afganistan...your war will be a lot closer.


    UB

    What are the exact freedoms you have lost since January?
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    What are the exact freedoms you have lost since January?
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    Oh I don't know, but 66% of my income ranks right up there for reducing a lot of my freedoms.

    Loss of a company vehicle also crosses my mind.

    How's that hope and change working out for you???


    UB
    When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

  8. #8
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    "W" 'took care' of my retirement savings by doing nothing while the economy tanked. We'll make room for you in the boat.

    Never had a company vehicle. Its new to me that it is a constitutional right. Is it?
    Last edited by zeus3925; 09-13-2009 at 07:44 PM.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bill View Post
    Would you believe me if I told you this is far more than a government takeover of one auto maker? If you don't "get it" with this tax payer rip-off, I couldn't possibly expect you to have any concern about the nationalization of the banking industry.

    So my question to you, Mr. Blackstone, is...when will you determine how many freedoms you must have legislated away before you are willing to say 'enough is enough'? When will this charade of an administration reach the point of having gored your ox? OR...doesn't what's happening relate to this nation's Constitution in your view?

    But then I suspect folks with your myopic view of the world around you think the tea parties are conducted by a gang of radicals, only concerned about getting their mugs on the evening news; You can't see they might just be as concerned for your welfare as their own, and are fighting to keep the USA they and their fellow Americans were brought up to believe in...with the same freedoms and liberty their parents enjoyed.

    Wake up Mr. Blackstone. What is happening is far more than suddenly having another Carter-type in the oval office. These aren't just a form of "the Democrats now having their turn." This is without question an attempt by every liberal-turned-socialist to turn this nation into a fascist society.

    If you happen to be thinking that's a long way off, let me give you a clue, so you'll know what you seem to be blinded to. When the Algore bill on carbon credits, and the secret ballot to allow the union thugs to control your workplace, and the universal healthcare program are signed into law by the self-annointed messiah, you will know it's too late. Humpty Dumpty will have fallen, and your family, heirs, and friends will be living in a different world. You will no longer have to be concerned about Iraq or Afganistan...your war will be a lot closer.

    Is that when you'll say "enuff is enuff?" Good luck.

    UB
    If the government is divested from GM in 12 months, as is the stated plan, will it still be a “government takeover of one auto maker?” Will it still be a “tax payer rip-off” if the government gets its money back? And, what was the alternative, watching GM & Chrysler go bankrupt, putting thousands out of work, and causing the collapse of countless suppliers and other business that depend on the auto industry? Would that have been a palatable alternative for you? That would have spelled the end of the U.S. auto industry because Ford would have followed close behind. You may think my view of the world is myopic, but you seem to have far less of a grasp on what is happening in the U.S. and the rest of the world than I do if the government temporarily holding a stake in GM is one of your major concerns.

    Please explain he nationalization of the banking industry. The ownership and control of the banking industry still looks like it did before Obama took office. The only difference is that it’s being watched more closely after its roll in the current economic crisis.

    And to answer your question, I am not prepared to give up any rights, liberties or freedoms. Please enlighten me with your hyperopic view of the world. What freedoms have I lost since Obama took office? What unconstitutional acts have taken place under this administration? I suffered more attack on my personal freedoms under the previous administration than I have so far under this one.

    I really don’t know what the tea parties are trying to accomplish. From what I’ve seen, a few of them have valid points. Some of the other are ranting about impending fascism, socialism, communism, and other claims not based on any facts. At this point, I don’t think I want them trying to represent me. I hope that doesn’t offend you if you are one of them.

    I just have one more questions, Uncle Bill, when did Obama anoint himself messiah? I saw him get sworn into office, but I must have missed that part of the oath.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackstone View Post
    If the government is divested from GM in 12 months, as is the stated plan, will it still be a “government takeover of one auto maker?” Will it still be a “tax payer rip-off” if the government gets its money back? And, what was the alternative, watching GM & Chrysler go bankrupt, putting thousands out of work, and causing the collapse of countless suppliers and other business that depend on the auto industry? Would that have been a palatable alternative for you? That would have spelled the end of the U.S. auto industry because Ford would have followed close behind. You may think my view of the world is myopic, but you seem to have far less of a grasp on what is happening in the U.S. and the rest of the world than I do if the government temporarily holding a stake in GM is one of your major concerns.
    From a NYT article today:

    "But it will probably be several years before the government can begin to sell its stake in G.M. back to the public, and even then, according a report issued last week by the independent monitor of the Troubled Asset Relief Program, some of the $20 billion or so funneled to G.M. and Chrysler is probably gone forever."


    So how much did we spend per job saved on that one? My HP-12C doesn't have enough comma's.

    That is one gigantic IF that you begin your post with

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