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Thread: The Dems are back at it again...

  1. #51
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Affirmative action is racist. When I was in my 20's I got a well earned promotion. The corp had a temp doing my old job. The temp who was in her 50's, doing a great job, well qualified based on experience and on the job performance was denied the perm position because she was not a minority.
    Quote from big boss who got the hell out said "HR says your job will only be filled by a monority"
    Minority who got the job was an illegal who got amnesty in the early 90's. This took place in the early 90's
    Add insult I was forced to train this person to do the job.
    This crap all tied back to gov't contracts.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    As a Conservative (not neo-Conservative), it is only a matter of time until seccesion becomes reality.

    The issues that divide will NEVER be resolved. Those that hate our history vs those that adore our history.

    Like I've said before, we have no real leadership. Therefore only chaos can follow. This current administration is leading us into a financial meltdown and it is not the fault of the real Conservatives.

    It is not about color but mentality. Obama was elected because of his color and because he is polished enough to appealed to many non-blacks who are disgusted with the Bush years. In Louisiana, we elected a man of Hindu origins as Gov. Not because of his color but because we knew he was smart enough to make the correct decisions!

    White Americans will be pursecuted in the future by non-whites in this country. If you don't see that coming, then you must be living in areas of the USA that are predomiently lilly-white.
    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

  3. #53
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Honestly, I don"t understand any of this race stuff except for when I see whites forced to take a back seat to minorities because of quotas.
    I just don't understand why the most qualified is denied the job because they are not a minorty.
    Born in the UK, grew up in the US as a result of my Dad being head hunted by the US gov't.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    WHAT?!

    That has nothing to do with the opposition to Obama. I am sure that there are a few people that oppose him due to that, but not 'the right'. Could it have anything to do with his lack of experience? How about his questionable ties with questionable people in his life? What about his far left ideals and policies? What part of that is racist?

    I hope you are stirring the pot, because if not, you must be pretty ignorant to make a comment like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    wacked, ignorant, bigot...the list is growing! Thanks.
    I enjoy discussing politics with most on this list who can disagree in civil, if not spirited terms. I enjoy seeing the others bare their ineptitude by resorting to name calling!

    Nice day regards....
    dave
    I enjoy seeing others ignore valid questions in order to make themselves seem more correct. Did you only read the last sentence in my post?

    OK. I lied. I don't enjoy seeing people ignore valid questions.
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    Last edited by ducknwork; 04-21-2011 at 05:36 PM.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    Good responce gman.

    Here's a little more.

    Hoosier writes;

    "There is obviously a difference in performance between the races."

    Care to elaborate on that a little more Tremayne?

    JD
    By performance I mean % living in poverty, % living in single parent homes, % in prison. There have to be reasons for this, and to limit the discussion to blaming others, and putting looking at culture off limits will not answer the questions that need to be answered. I'm sure institutional racism was a contributing factor, but the discussion shouldn't be limited to that.

    Now that I responded to your post I would appreciate it if you didn't twist what I said or take one sentence from a whole post and call me a racist.

  6. #56
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    As a Conservative (not neo-Conservative), it is only a matter of time until seccesion becomes reality.

    The issues that divide will NEVER be resolved. Those that hate our history vs those that adore our history.

    Like I've said before, we have no real leadership. Therefore only chaos can follow. This current administration is leading us into a financial meltdown and it is not the fault of the real Conservatives.

    It is not about color but mentality. Obama was elected because of his color and because he is polished enough to appealed to many non-blacks who are disgusted with the Bush years. In Louisiana, we elected a man of Hindu origins as Gov. Not because of his color but because we knew he was smart enough to make the correct decisions!

    White Americans will be pursecuted in the future by non-whites in this country. If you don't see that coming, then you must be living in areas of the USA that are predomiently lilly-white.
    I love our history.

    I love the fact that a bunch of white slave-owning guys got together and laid the original foundation for equality among sexes and races and religions even though that was not the practice at the time.

    I love the fact that the country fought a civil war, threatening the very existence of our country, in part to end the practice of slavery and that slavery was, in fact, ended.

    I love the fact that a bunch of white men on the Supreme Court overthrew precedent in support of equality, and I love the fact that a Texas bigot, who used his power in Congress to thwart efforts to make lynching illegal, ended up as the champion of civil rights and a champion of services for the poor.

    I love the fact that a shoe salesman from Missouri ended the unconscionable segregation of our army. I love the fact that a conservative movie star used his power as President to offer amnesty to persons who had entered our country illegally but contributed to the country, obeyed our laws and paid our taxes. And finally, I am proud that despite the doubts of many, the people of our country overcame centuries of prejudice to elect a black man as President because they thought he was the better candidate.

    I am very proud of our history as a nation and hopeful for our future. I wonder at times how you seem to believe that those who help make our history are now traitors to it.

  7. #57
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    By performance I mean % living in poverty, % living in single parent homes, % in prison. There have to be reasons for this, and to limit the discussion to blaming others, and putting looking at culture off limits will not answer the questions that need to be answered. I'm sure institutional racism was a contributing factor, but the discussion shouldn't be limited to that.

    Now that I responded to your post I would appreciate it if you didn't twist what I said or take one sentence from a whole post and call me a racist.
    OK...I'll quote your whole post, but I'm interested in one line in particular.

    "There have to be reasons for this,"

    ....and some of those might be...?

    JD
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  8. #58
    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    OK...I'll quote your whole post, but I'm interested in one line in particular.

    "There have to be reasons for this,"

    ....and some of those might be...?

    JD
    I'm not falling for that. As soon as I say something that you don't agree with you'll whip out the old race card and start throwing labels around. No thanks.

  9. #59
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    I'm not falling for that. As soon as I say something that you don't agree with you'll whip out the old race card and start throwing labels around. No thanks.
    If you trully had some basis for your statement,

    "there has to be some reason for this"

    you would not cut and run.

    Please explain. I'll not call you names. You said these matters may not be discussed. Why?

    JD
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  10. #60
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    It is virtually impossible to have a balanced conversation about affirmative action without going well beyond the sound bites traditionally allowed in news or even forum environments. I do not believe that affirmative action is in any manner whatsoever equivalent to reverse racism. Those who condemn it as such are usually choosing to look at only one side of the decisions being made. However, I agree absolutely that many blacks are set up for failure by people claiming to be responding to requirements for affirmative action. The fact is that no requirements for affirmative action require anyone to hire an unqualified individual. If they do so the fault is the incompetence of the person doing the hiring -- not the affirmative action requirements and not the individual being hired. There was a post on this forum several months ago that is illustrative of the type of problem encountered (I will make no effort to find the post since my comment is not intended as a reflection on the poster). The person indicated that he had been passed over for a job to hire a less qualified minority person. He noted that his father and other family members worked in the field, that he had summer jobs in the field, and that he was well connected to the other workers in the field but still did not get the job. In many industries, hiring is done traditionally through such personal networks. A by product of this is that fields that are dominated by a particular group tend to be closed to people outside of that group.

    Affirmative action, done correctly, forces employers to expand their horizons in looking for new recruits. I believe that this benefits both the people hired and the companies that do the hiring because those new people bring new blood and new perspectives that can help improve the ways things are done. Unfortunately, the individuals who would have benefited from the more restrictive recruiting perspective lose when competition for jobs is opened up in this way.

    Even more insidious are the arguments of reverse discrimination when test results are over-turned. In college admissions, there have been many law suits where people with higher college admission test scores have sued when minorities were admitted with lower scores. In another context, these same individuals might be the ones arguing that such test results are artificial. However, in this context the test scores are assigned some miraculously unerring skill in determining who is or is not most qualified. Personally, my experience and the experience of people who make admission decisions on a regular basis is that such test scores are simply one tool to be used in identifying the best candidates. While there are real differences between candidates with widely varying scores, there is almost no difference between individuals with scores in similar ranges. Further, scores are often inordinately affected by certain factors that are not at all related to the actual capabilities of the individuals tested. For example, cultural differences, language differences, class differences, prior test taking experience, etc. can all affect results significantly but have no implications for future success. Even in the absence of affirmative action, this results in decisions that would appear irrational if measured solely against test results.

    Another consideration is that when making admission decisions or hiring decisions, my goal is not to hire the most "qualified" individual for the job. My goal is to create to most qualified team or, in the case of a school, the student body that will provide the most challenging educational environment for helping students to excel. For example, in staffing large teams to design and implement computer systems, I found that I needed a mix of people who were highly experienced with the tools being used balanced by a group of highly motivated and intelligent people with little to no experience with the tools being used. If I replaced those less experienced staff with more experienced programmers, total team productivity declined dramatically even while costs of development went up. There are lots of reasons for this, but they underscore the point that there are no simple measures of who is "best qualified" for a position. In particular, I found that cultural diversity was one of the factors that measurably improved team productivity.
    Yeah, just ask those firemen who didn't get their promotions based on a ruling by a judge who is probably a product of Affirmative Action..
    Last edited by M&K's Retrievers; 09-16-2009 at 09:57 PM.
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