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Thread: Someone's gonna get fired...

  1. #21
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    I'll be perfectly honest. I don't think they should teach black history month in school.
    I consider it racist since there is no white history month.

  2. #22
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    I am sure that many share that sentiment, but sadly, it will never matter.
    ________
    Old man porn
    Last edited by ducknwork; 04-21-2011 at 06:47 PM.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Richard Halstead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Britton View Post
    We used to sing songs about Carter, and they weren't nice. I also remember singing a song about bombing Iran??? Neither were school sanctioned though.
    To the Beach Boy's Barbara Ann
    We should sing it again.
    Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran
    cave canem...beware of the dog
    Richard Halstead (halst001 at yahoo.com)

    http://www.browndogmafia.com/finalists.html

  4. #24
    Senior Member dback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Actually, I didn't care for ths song anyway, as I noted in my earlier post.
    No....let's call it like it is. You made that pusillanimous qualification to cover your powder white azz knowng full well you would be 'called' on your veiled defense of the teachers actions. Your desired position of the 'level-headed, fair/balanced mediator' of all things political has long since been exposed by your very commentary....grow some onions and just admit that you'd follow this or any Democrat administration into Poland proclaiming "it's GWB's fault" to the bitter end.

    However, long before I was a graduate of the Ivy League, I was a graduate of East Tennessee elementary schools where we were required to read from the Bible every morning and, if you were Jewish, you were required to read from the New Testament to help you find Jesus.
    Exactly how the hell old are you? Many practices common place in the 17th century are no longer incorporated in todays society. Use of the Bible as a text book is something I remember reading about in my history classes but have never myself experienced. If it has left such an indelible mark these many years later, I recommend counseling. I, however, am not prone to self flagellantism simply because you transition these time periods nor should my children/grandchildren experience these same practices simply to 'justify' Jeff's perceived/actual injustices.

    The (Republican) President's photo was on the wall of every classroom directly behind the teacher
    Strangely enough....I had that same experience....Democrat, however. Guess I'm just not a 'progressive' enough thinker to have been marred by that particular episode in my life as I was always taught and viewed it as respect of the office (certainly not comparable to worship of the man).


    and next to the flag.
    I have no clue what you are suggesting here....Ole Glory herself has left a mark????? Maybe the flag of the UN would suit you better?

    Much more recently, my daughter graduated from a public high school where, despite the ban on prayer in public schools, the assistant principle did a prayer to Jesus at the beginning of every school day over the PA system.
    Can't speak to this one. I was the only non-mormon (excepting my sister) in my entire school (wasn't scarred by that experience either....they are fine people). That being said, they did not follow that practice even there.

    During the Reagan-Dukakis election, her social studies teacher ridiculed Dukakis to such an extent that only two students were willing to admit to favoring him (my daughter was one). They were appointed to represent Dukakis in a "debate" against a team of four designatetd to represent Reagan. When the majority of students then decided that the "Dukakis" team had won the debate, the teacher gave each of the Dukakis team a C while giving A's to the Reagan team.
    Here's a novel thought. Even though half the "Dukakis" team was sprung from the very loins of an Ivy League prodigy....MAYBE THEY DESERVED A FREAKING 'C'!!!! You sound like a 'stage mom' on this one. Quick...someone get me a freaking tissue.

    Tap dance to your hearts content but I will never buy that you wouldn't have filled your Santa Ana drawers with excrement had your grandchildren been forced to sing these same praises to GWB.

    Give me a break.
    Last edited by dback; 09-26-2009 at 12:31 AM.
    "What a difference a week makes. This week I feel like a football coach. Last week I felt like Britney Spears' choreographer."
    Coach Bob Green, Montana Tech

  5. #25
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dback View Post
    No....let's call it like it is. You made that pusillanimous qualification to cover your powder white azz knowng full well you would be 'called' on your veiled defense of the teachers actions. Your desired position of the 'level-headed, fair/balanced mediator' of all things political has long since been exposed by your very commentary....grow some onions and just admit that you'd follow this or any Democrat administration into Poland proclaiming "it's GWB's fault" to the bitter end.
    You mind reading skills must help a lot in dog training. Hopefully they work better on dogs.


    Quote Originally Posted by dback View Post
    Exactly how the hell old are you? Many practices common place in the 17th century are no longer incorporated in todays society. Use of the Bible as a text book is something I remember reading about in my history classes but have never myself experienced. If it has left such an indelible mark these many years later, I recommend counseling. I, however, am not prone to self flagellantism simply because you transition these time periods nor should my children/grandchildren experience these same practices simply to 'justify' Jeff's perceived/actual injustices.
    I'm 60. Schools were legally segregated in my school district and prayer in public schools was not outlawed until the early 60's. In my district, 8/9 school board members belonged to the Central Baptist church and used their positions to make the public schools something of an extension to Baptist Sunday School. Banning that type of idiotic proselytizing was one of the smartest things done by the Supreme Court. I would not say my experience scarred me, but it definitely gave me an appreciation of how religion can be used as a weapon by bigots. I would also say that a practice that happens every day in every class is very different from a song sung in a single classroom as part of a general skit. I do not like the song that was sung, but I also do not believe it warped or brainwashed anyone. My opinion would be quite different if it were done regularly or across classes. In that case, like Bob, I would view it as an effort to establish a ridiculous and dangerous personality cult. If the teacher involved had not already left the school system, I also believe that a disciplinary discussion would be in order.

    Quote Originally Posted by dback View Post
    I have no clue what you are suggesting here....Ole Glory herself has left a mark????? Maybe the flag of the UN would suit you better?
    Actually, I was just giving a physical description of where the photo was placed.

    Quote Originally Posted by dback View Post
    Tap dance to your hearts content but I will never buy that you wouldn't have filled your Santa Ana drawers with excrement had your grandchildren been forced to sing these same praises to GWB.

    Give me a break.
    Maybe you shouldn't count too much on the accuracy of your mind reading skills.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    You guys make me feel schizoid ... don't know who I am anymore

    1) I don't really like segregating great people into "Black History Month" or "White History Month". There is an element to that which perpetuates segregation. Greatness, character, compassion, & integrity should be ageless and colorless.

    2) I really don't like the idea of formalizing a kind of adulation of a specific political figure in song in a school environment as was done in this case. There must be other ways to present history and/or current events to younger children.

    3) I don't think kids should be compelled to pray in school, but I also don't think that they should be prevented from praying in school if they want to; or for voluntary clubs that happen to be religiously oriented using students' own time like study halls, or after-school in the school building ... as long as all groups,including atheists are given the same individual rights. Everybody pays taxes & schools are public buildings in that regard. Why shouldn't citizens be able to use space in those public buildings if it's available?

    4) I don't think teachers should inflict their personal religious or political views on the kids. They are supposed to be teaching kids to think independently about facts at hand.

    5) I don't think its the end of the world if some public events begin with a prayer that reflects the faith of the person who is doing the praying. Nobody in the audience is required to pray with that person; just respect that person's right to pray. Most such public prayers try to be ecumenical. Not sure what the atheists can do ... but they aren't required to pray, so doesn't seem like a huge affront to personal freedom.

    6) Some people don't play by the rules of respecting other people's individual rights. When laws are broken there are penalties for that. No real laws against being stupid or obnoxious, unless you end up breaking a law.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  7. #27
    Senior Member dback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yardlylabs
    I'm 60. Schools were legally segregated in my school district and prayer in public schools was not outlawed until the early 60's. In my district, 8/9 school board members belonged to the Central Baptist church and used their positions to make the public schools something of an extension to Baptist Sunday School.
    Far be it from me to point out that most/all of the 8/9 school board members have long since passed (probably in the last century) and as you point out the activity has been banned. Why, therefore, would you use this as an example of justification for a contempory instructor doing virtually the same thing? IT IS PROSELYTIZING!


    I would not say my experience scarred me,
    Obviously not....we only became friends and allies with the Japanese after WWII in 1/4th the time period.


    I also do not believe
    nor did I say
    it warped or brainwashed anyone.

    I would challenge your 'wonder mind' to consider the uneasiness of folks on the right side of the isle, the precedent set by this "skit".....
    to establish a ridiculous and dangerous personality cult.

    Maybe you shouldn't count too much on the accuracy of your mind reading skills.
    Puleeeeze....you reek of blind bias. A rank bull would have a better chance of safely passing 10 yrds upwind of an archery hunter then you'd have of successfully concealing your closed mind for all things Republican or Conservative. It would take more mind reading skills to understand George Patton's position on any given subject than to accurately describe yours. You remind me of a spike caught in the open, refusing to blink for fear he would further reveal his position.

    'mind reading skills'.....ssht...you're laughable

    Experience enough to recognize 'mature' bull regards
    "What a difference a week makes. This week I feel like a football coach. Last week I felt like Britney Spears' choreographer."
    Coach Bob Green, Montana Tech

  8. #28
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    You guys make me feel schizoid ... don't know who I am anymore

    1) I don't really like segregating great people into "Black History Month" or "White History Month". There is an element to that which perpetuates segregation. Greatness, character, compassion, & integrity should be ageless and colorless.

    2) I really don't like the idea of formalizing a kind of adulation of a specific political figure in song in a school environment as was done in this case. There must be other ways to present history and/or current events to younger children.

    3) I don't think kids should be compelled to pray in school, but I also don't think that they should be prevented from praying in school if they want to; or for voluntary clubs that happen to be religiously oriented using students' own time like study halls, or after-school in the school building ... as long as all groups,including atheists are given the same individual rights. Everybody pays taxes & schools are public buildings in that regard. Why shouldn't citizens be able to use space in those public buildings if it's available?

    4) I don't think teachers should inflict their personal religious or political views on the kids. They are supposed to be teaching kids to think independently about facts at hand.

    5) I don't think its the end of the world if some public events begin with a prayer that reflects the faith of the person who is doing the praying. Nobody in the audience is required to pray with that person; just respect that person's right to pray. Most such public prayers try to be ecumenical. Not sure what the atheists can do ... but they aren't required to pray, so doesn't seem like a huge affront to personal freedom.

    6) Some people don't play by the rules of respecting other people's individual rights. When laws are broken there are penalties for that. No real laws against being stupid or obnoxious, unless you end up breaking a law.
    1. I agree. It had its roots in the fact that history as taught in schools for most of our history ignored the contributions of non-whites. That is a blind spot that continues today (think, for example, of how we count Sherpas when describing those brave souls that have climbed Everest). Think also of the role played by Columbus and St. Patrick's Day festivities in our society.

    2. I agree. Sometimes all it takes is distance. When I was little, we would never have considered celebrating Lincoln's presidency because he had led the invasion of the south.

    3. I agree. However, there is a difference between allowing the facility to be used passively and using the social position and power of the school to further a message.

    4. I actually think that every teacher brings his or her personal values and beliefs into the classroom every day. The only question is how honestly those beliefs are handled. In 8th grade, my son's science teacher was a creationist. He was incapable of teaching a lesson on evolution without proving, to his own satisfaction, that it was wrong. Students were given assignments to write essays that presented the arguments of how creationism made it clear that evolution was impossible. He justified this as being neutral since he only required that they know and be able to state the arguments and did not require that they actually accept them. In my mind that was a dishonest way of addressing his beliefs. However, contrary to dback's assumptions, I told my son that it was a fair assignment and that he should be able to do as the teacher requested. If he did not understand the arguments, how could he realistically form an opinion for or against?

    5. I disagree. If prayer is meaningful, it does not need to be said in a group or even out loud. Nothing prevents any individual from praying any time they wish to do so. The only purpose of public prayer at, for example, a school function, is to use the weight of the group to bring tacit pressure on all to conform. There is no such thing as an ecumenical prayer. In my experience, that is something that protestants do so that one sect can feel comfortable with the others. To test how non-denominational the prayer is, decide how long the practice would continue if all prayers were led by Muslims, Hindus or atheists. If the prayer in non-denominational, it should make no difference.

    6. Ain't it the truth.
    Last edited by YardleyLabs; 09-26-2009 at 03:04 PM.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    1) Glad we can agree! A stretch to me of comparing "St. Patrick's Day" or "Valentine's Day" to "Black History Month". Might even make more sense to have "Native American History Month". I'd rather come down in favor of good, old, factually based history that doesn't leave anybody out who deserves to be in there.

    2) Besides Lincoln wasn't still alive when you were in school As part of history class, all the Presidents would have a place ... without history class some of them might not even be remembered

    3) There ya' go. 3 in a row.

    4) Yup, a teacher, like all the rest of us, has a personality that is made up of all their life experience. Yet, if you choose teaching as a profession then there should be some kind of Hippocratic-like oath to encourage thinking & creativity of thought. Education is not supposed to be "indoctrination".

    5) Thank goodness we disagree on something I think both public & private prayer is meaningful. Public prayer is not necessarily school prayer. In fact, I specifically mentioned school prayer separately. "Public prayer" could mean sporting events, social gatherings outside of a church environment, any number of public ceremonies where there are "invocations". Unless the Muslims were advocating "death to infidels" in their prayers, I wouldn't be out of sorts with it. Actually, I'd find it harder to relate to Hindu prayer, since Hindus are not monotheistic. However, any person who sees their religion (or even an atheist) as a positive force for good, who believes using their belief (or non-belief) for the benefit of the human condition is not gonna annoy me.

    Maybe you see my identity dilemma ... I consider myself conservative. You typically take a liberal perspective on this forum. You are avowed atheistic (or at minimal agnostic). I consider myself Christian. We've both expressed divergent views on how best to approach the health care issue. You believe in the climate change threat. I'm really not convinced. You seem to like BHO, I'm not convinced I trust his leadership quality. Yet we could pretty much agree on 5 of 6 points in this discussion.

    Just when I thought I was getting cozy in my pigeon hole ...
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

  10. #30
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Thinking is always hard to do from inside a pigeon hole. My comment on prayer would only apply to prayer in a context where it assumes coercive qualities because of its association with governmental functions. I have no problem with prayer, even though it is not something I do personally in any fashion that would be recognized as such. However, I actually go to church quite often and served on my church's Board of Directors for several years. Go figure.

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