White labs

[Peggy Snyder]

Back a few years (OK maybe more than a few) it was hard to get a cream or white lab...they would all be yellow with an occasional very light colored one. Now it's hard to
get that beautiful yellow..Where do we want to go with these color variations? I want to get a pair that throw a nice yella dog. Are we messing with the genetics so we'll create out of the norm colors and the "old colors" will go away?

[mcnaugt]

I once had a guy bring his dog in for training and when he brought the white dog out of the truck I told him he has a nice looking yellow lab. He immediately corrected me by saying it is a white lab.
So I told him that I charge $100.00 more for white labs. He immediately told me that his lab was yellow

[Certainty]

I once had a guy bring his dog in for training and when he brought the white dog out of the truck I told him he has a nice looking yellow lab. He immediately corrected me by saying it is a white lab.
So I told him that I charge $100.00 more for white labs. He immediately told me that his lab was yellow

LOL, there's that visual thing cropping up.


Peggy, I know what you mean. I love the golden shades of yellow in Labs. But it seems that in the yellow litters I get, almost all of them are cream or lighter.

[Ironman]

So what actually causes a "Yellow" Lab.....


.....to have a "White" coat.....


......or to have a "Red" Coat?

[kindakinky]

This is really interesting you say the origins of your breed Curly Coated Retrievers which some were totally white, black and white or liver and white.
Do you have pictures? I'd love to see pics of them.

Audrey Nicholls (Darelyn) mentions white curlies in her book and one predominantly white is preserved at a British museum. (I would have to look up what museum but you probably have a copy of Audrey's book.)

Here's the pic:


This guy looks totally curly: from the smooth face, etc. You can see the bonnet he has on his skull which is so correct for curlies.

There was also a pic on Ebay about 8 years ago of a white curly in the Northwest of the U.S. photographed in about 1900. Unfortunately, I could not bid high enough to buy it. I also could not bid high enough to purchase the pair of mittens from an early dog sled musher made out of curly skin and hair.

Some Great Pyrenees and Kuvasz historians indicate part of the development of their breed included crosses with English curly coated retrievers in Canada. Interestingly weird, huh?

"Cream" colored curlies are mentioned in some British writings of the late 1800's. At one time, a small white patch on the breast, rather than just a "few white hairs" was allowable in curlies.

I recognize some curly breeders believe any curly born with more than a few white hairs today is somehow the product of a mismating. But that would fly in the face of what Audrey Nicholls has written (and I don't believe anyone would deny Mrs. Nicholls was one, if not the preeminent, of the foremost experts on the breed in our lifetime.)

Regards from someone who owns a curly with quite a bit more than a few white hairs (and he has polka dots of black in his white patch--totally cool, at least to me....

J. Marti

[Landaracurl]

Audrey Nicholls (Darelyn) mentions white curlies in her book and one predominantly white is preserved at a British museum. (I would have to look up what museum but you probably have a copy of Audrey's book.)

Here's the pic:


This guy looks totally curly: from the smooth face, etc. You can see the bonnet he has on his skull which is so correct for curlies.

There was also a pic on Ebay about 8 years ago of a white curly in the Northwest of the U.S. photographed in about 1900. Unfortunately, I could not bid high enough to buy it. I also could not bid high enough to purchase the pair of mittens from an early dog sled musher made out of curly skin and hair.

Some Great Pyrenees and Kuvasz historians indicate part of the development of their breed included crosses with English curly coated retrievers in Canada. Interestingly weird, huh?

"Cream" colored curlies are mentioned in some British writings of the late 1800's. At one time, a small white patch on the breast, rather than just a "few white hairs" was allowable in curlies.

I recognize some curly breeders believe any curly born with more than a few white hairs today is somehow the product of a mismating. But that would fly in the face of what Audrey Nicholls has written (and I don't believe anyone would deny Mrs. Nicholls was one, if not the preeminent, of the foremost experts on the breed in our lifetime.)

Regards from someone who owns a curly with quite a bit more than a few white hairs (and he has polka dots of black in his white patch--totally cool, at least to me....

J. Marti

Oh my THANK YOU, I love it. It is just to cool.
I think yours with polka dots is pretty cool also, it definately would be a keeper for me, too.

Yes, I have Audrey's book and the new addition also.

I don't remember where I heard it or if it is a urban legend . . .
but I heard there was a curly that was almost all white that was shown in the UK, maybe by Audrey, did you know anything about that?

[firehouselabs]

The only part about advertising that drives me nuts, about any color or breed, is when they say "rare!" , "hard to achieve color!", "only found here!" in their ads. 95% of them are of colors NOT in the breed standard or of an obvious fault. Case in point, I seen an ad for "rare blue eyed chocolate puppies" in the same litter were "rare pink nosed yellow babies with blue eyes". Obviously the breeder didn't know enough about pups to realize that puppies have blueish eyes that turn to shades of brown or yellow (another RARE occurrence!) as the pups get older. I am also seeing a lot of normal mid-range yellows sold as fox reds because their ears are darker.
Another breed that has really gone downhill in the Kansas City area is boxers. Everyone with a backyard seems to be breeding them and selling rare white or rare black ones. White pups are pretty much the norm in over 3/4 of all the litters advertised. Black and black and white are showing up in about 1 out of 10 ads as well.
I have no problem with people using white, creme, light, dark, fox red, etc.. as discriptures so that people know what shade of pups are available, just don't make that the ONLY selling point. Oh, and don't try and tell me that you are going to charge me extra for it!

[Burnt Oak Retrievers]

Our "white" yellow lab female...

[ajcsurf]

girlfriends dog is the white one...

[Furball]

So what actually causes a "Yellow" Lab.....

.....to have a "White" coat.....


......or to have a "Red" Coat?

Modifier genes. Lots of em.
Same thing that makes an Irish Setter red, a golden retriever gold, and a buff cocker spaniel, well, buff. Throw them together with the yellow labs and they are ALL recessive at the E locus and that resultant yellow color lightened or darkened by an unknown number of modifier genes that toggle on or off to add or subtract color.