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Thread: Why all the partisan bickering

  1. #11
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    I would to see less ad hominem in these threads. Its time we stop the name calling and blame finding. There are a number of perils the country faces. We need to dialogue and get some solutions or divided we will most certainly fall as a nation.

    We are for the most part concerned about the future of the country--liberal and conservative, democrat and republican, alike. We are sure to have differences, but those differences do not merit the bile and hatred spewed out here. Bile and hatred contributes nothing to the discussion. It may serve as a catharsis for those who spew, but it also convinces others of the ignorance of those who utter the abuse.

    The vile names that have been hurled in this forum toward people of opposing opinions should be viewed as a loss of the argument by the name caller.
    I couldnt agree any more or said it any better

    and to Bruce, I am a fairly staunch conservative and I lean to the right of center but I know in my heart of hearts that I will never agree politically with Jeff or Roger and I used to think df777 (but lately I have seen more middle ground in his post) but what good is a name calling shouting match . If I want that I can just call my son's mother

    I am trying to learn to pose my view in a calm sensible way, because when I run into some of you on the FT circuit I would like to be able to smile and say( hi,pleased to meet you and not " oh they are such and such on RTF and they are a political such and such)..my political beliefs should not define who I am,they may help identify it
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce MacPherson View Post
    I couldn't disagree more. There is nothing wrong with partisanship. We can be civil but we certainly have every right to stand up strongly for principles we believe in strongly. From personal experience, those people that are always interested in finding middle ground between competing ideas are just those too intellectually lazy to form and believe in their own.
    Exactly. Every word of it.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    BTW--I been looking, where the name calling at?
    I honestly have not seen that in a while......unless you mean "secular progressives?"
    But then would "right wing extremist" be a name?
    But, by defintion some of us may well fit those titles.
    So be it!

    stan b
    Stan b & Elvis

  4. #14
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hew View Post
    Exactly. Every word of it.
    "The only thought more frightening than men arguing religion and politics is the thought of men NOT arguing religion and politics!"

    Thomas Jefferson
    Stan b & Elvis

  5. #15
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce MacPherson View Post
    I couldn't disagree more. There is nothing wrong with partisanship. We can be civil but we certainly have every right to stand up strongly for principles we believe in strongly. From personal experience, those people that are always interested in finding middle ground between competing ideas are just those too intellectually lazy to form and believe in their own.
    We have the right to stand for our principles, but rigid adherence to a doctrine rarely accomplishes any thing in politics and governance. It is a good reason why nothing is getting done and the lobbyists are exploiting the rancor. Politics is the art of compromise. It takes quite a bit of intellectual horsepower to understand your perspective as well as the opposing one enough to forge a way through to get something that can work.

    Northern Ireland is a good example of two sides at loggerheads for decades, if not centuries. Once they got by the finger pointing and name calling, both sides had to give something in order that they might have peace. For example, the UDF had to give up it privileged position in civil and economic affairs and the IRA had to give up its guns. Now, the Protestants and Catholics are still apart on religious and ideological viewpoints but, the peace has brought investments and jobs. Few are willing to risk the better life to go back to the struggles.

    People do not slavishly navigate to one political pole or another. There are gradations in between. It doesn't mean they are intellectually lazy, it is because their world view comes not only with knowledge but, life's experiences as well.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 10-01-2009 at 06:55 PM.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    We have the right to stand for our principles, but rigid adherence to a doctrine rarely accomplishes any thing in politics and governance. It is a good reason why nothing is getting done and the lobbyists are exploiting the rancor. Politics is the art of compromise. It takes quite a bit of intellectual horsepower to understand your perspective as well as the opposing one enough to forge a way through to get something that can work.

    Northern Ireland is a good example of two sides at loggerheads for decades, if not centuries. Once they got by the finger pointing and name calling, both sides had to give something in order that they might be peace. For example, the UDF had to give up it privileged position in civil and economic affairs and the IRA had to give up its guns. Now, the Protestants and Catholics are still apart on religious and ideological viewpoints but, the peace has brought investments and jobs. Few are willing to risk the better life to go back to the struggles.

    People do not slavishly navigate to one political pole or another. There are gradations in between. It doesn't mean they are intellectually lazy, it is because their world view comes not only with knowledge but, life's experiences as well.
    That is very well said.

    stan b
    Stan b & Elvis

  7. #17
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    BTW--I been looking, where the name calling at?
    I honestly have not seen that in a while......unless you mean "secular progressives?"
    But then would "right wing extremist" be a name?
    But, by defintion some of us may well fit those titles.
    So be it!

    stan b
    Nothing wrong with "secular progressives". Those are the folks who taught us the world is round, women can work and vote, and gave us Rock-n-roll!

    Calling someone a "right wing extremist" can be either a compliment or an insult, depending on who you talking to!
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

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    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    I feel like I'm reading Archie and Jughead...
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  9. #19
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    I feel like I'm reading Archie and Jughead...
    I see you are drawn to high grade literature.
    Sarge

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  10. #20
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    BTW--I been looking, where the name calling at?
    I honestly have not seen that in a while......unless you mean "secular progressives?"
    But then would "right wing extremist" be a name?
    But, by defintion some of us may well fit those titles.
    So be it!

    stan b
    Actually, I think I agreed that secular progressive was a fair description of me, although many other "progressives" preferred not to be called secular because of their religious beliefs. And I think you agreed that right wing extremist was a fair description for your beliefs. Possibly the last two things we've agreed on.

    As a nation, we have a long tradition of intense disagreements and even nasty ad hominem attacks. If you think people are nasty today, look at some of the materials from the campaign between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. However, we have thrived as a nation because, with one exception, our partisans have always concluded that it was better to compromise and live together in a representative democracy (win or lose) than to split apart or give up on democracy in favor or some theoretical dictator who would obviously be smart enough to always agree with our own personal position. In a very real sense, that spirit of pragmatic compromise is the true ideology handed down to us by our forefathers. Other than during the period of the civil war, I am not sure we have ever have a period when some many seemed willing to throw away that core aspect of our heritage.

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