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Thread: Bogus legislation

  1. #11
    Senior Member TXduckdog's Avatar
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    Monopoly....1) exclusive ownership through legal priviledge, command of supply or concerted action; 2)exclusive possession or control; 3) a commodity controlled by one party.

    I think there are aspects from each of these definitions that certainly apply to the proposed government control of healthcare. Therefore monopoly is an applicable term in this case.
    Train the dog, the ribbons will take care of themselves.

  2. #12
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXduckdog View Post
    Monopoly....1) exclusive ownership through legal priviledge, command of supply or concerted action; 2)exclusive possession or control; 3) a commodity controlled by one party.

    I think there are aspects from each of these definitions that certainly apply to the proposed government control of healthcare. Therefore monopoly is an applicable term in this case.
    Can you explain further? I don't see how any of these apply. Insurance has been and continues to be a regulated industry with limited Federal regulation and extensive state regulation. What is changing. I am not asking as some form of trick question. I truly don't understand your argument.

  3. #13
    Senior Member TXduckdog's Avatar
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    You don't see how the goverment through ---- taxation, cutting and/or regulating present services, mandating specialists actions, mandating everyone to have health insurance, whether private or the public option.

    These are just a few right of the top of my head.

    Jeff...do you really believe that government will NOT be in control of the healthcare system as we know it with the passage of ANY of the current bills?
    Train the dog, the ribbons will take care of themselves.

  4. #14
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXduckdog View Post
    You don't see how the goverment through ---- taxation, cutting and/or regulating present services, mandating specialists actions, mandating everyone to have health insurance, whether private or the public option.

    These are just a few right of the top of my head.

    Jeff...do you really believe that government will NOT be in control of the healthcare system as we know it with the passage of ANY of the current bills?
    I believe that our health care system is currently controlled by a variety of forces -- both governmental and private. The one force that is not involved currently and is not likely to be involved any more is open market competition for the simple reason that consumers are shielded from the economic impact of their choices by insurance and have only a limited ability to make informed decisions about their medical needs anyway. I do not believe anything in the proposed program will change that for better or worse. Today, the rules are made largely by whoever pays the bills. For those covered by private health plans (about 60% of the population), those decisions are regulated by private insurance companies with little external review. For those covered by Medicaid or Medicare, those decisions are regulated by State and Federal governments, although with generally less oversight than exists with private plans. The proposed changes will add a few more people to public plans and add even more people to private plans. I do not believe it creates anything even vaguely approaching a government monopoly.

  5. #15
    Senior Member TXduckdog's Avatar
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    Jeff...are not the proposed health-care reform proposals the single largest proposed government entitlement in history?

    For those involved in the entitlement and these proposals want EVERYBODY involved, the government pays the bills....since they do....government will make the rules...hence a government monopoly.

    This WSJ article has tremendous detail.....http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...mEditorialPage

    I'd like to believe, as you do, that we are "safe" from government intrusion, but brother, that just ain't so.
    Train the dog, the ribbons will take care of themselves.

  6. #16
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXduckdog View Post
    Jeff...are not the proposed health-care reform proposals the single largest proposed government entitlement in history?

    For those involved in the entitlement and these proposals want EVERYBODY involved, the government pays the bills....since they do....government will make the rules...hence a government monopoly.

    This WSJ article has tremendous detail.....http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...mEditorialPage

    I'd like to believe, as you do, that we are "safe" from government intrusion, but brother, that just ain't so.
    I think both Social Security and Medicare are bigger both in terms of number of beneficiaries and cost. However, I haven't actually done the math.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    I think both Social Security and Medicare are bigger both in terms of number of beneficiaries and cost. However, I haven't actually done the math.
    Aren't both of those going bankrupt?

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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Today, the rules are made largely by whoever pays the bills.
    If one of the HC bills are passed, who will be paying the bills? The government?
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    Last edited by ducknwork; 04-21-2011 at 07:04 PM.

  9. #19
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    Aren't both of those going bankrupt?
    Not as fast as the rest of the government.

    There are a few different issues involved with the "bankruptcy" of social security and medicare. On social security, the process is a very slow one that has been accelerated by two factors: (1) real increases in post retirement life expectancy without off-setting changes in retirement age or benefits, or off-setting tax increases, and (2) spending of surpluses over the last 20 years to finance current deficits used primarily to finance general tax cuts. In Medicare, increased longevity is also a factor. It is made worse by price inflation for services other than physician services at rates more than twice the rate of inflation plus the addition of new services such as the drug benefit with no increase in premium. The latter was made worse by the inclusion of special windfall provisions benefiting the pharmaceutical and insurance industries to the tune of tens of billions of dollars per year. By the way, the principal source of savings in the proposed health bills is to eliminate some of these windfall programs.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    By the way, the principal source of savings in the proposed health bills is to eliminate some of these windfall programs.
    Why don't we start saving money now, then, when the savings are proven and measurable, start spending that money? It shouldn't be 'spend now, save later', rather, the other way around...

    I think someone should introduce our congress to Dave Ramsey.
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    Last edited by ducknwork; 04-21-2011 at 07:04 PM.

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