Fascism

[YardleyLabs]

So you think the Pledge of Allegiance, pep squad assemblies and playing the national anthem are social regimentation?

Regimented efforts to build group identity and stimulate loyalty to country are definite examples of social regimentation. The fact that you may support the values being instilled doesn't change their nature. Having these things done within an institutionally mandated group environment is an effort to bring both the power of the institution and peer pressure to encourage group identification and allegiance and to subsume individual identity within the group. The boundary between this and Fascism is one of degree. Russian classrooms under Khrushchev did similar things which were reinforced in their version of the boy and girl scouts (called the Young Pioneers - I attended a few meetings as part of a school trip around 1963). On the Kibbutzim in Israel, when I was there (mid-60's), there were similar programs for inculcating group values among teenagers. Children lived apart from their parents, seeing them on a scheduled daily basis but only for 1-2 hours. At other times, children lived in dormitories which maintained their own social structure under the leadership of individuals appointed by the kibbutz. Every week there were group meetings for patriotic presentation, singing of patriotic songs, and dancing of group dances. Upon graduation from high school all students were then required to join the army for two years where similar techniques were used to maintain group identity. Obviously, in this country and in Israel, these social regimentation efforts were not accompanied with dictatorial government structures, while in Russia they were. However, in Israel, a lot of work went into planning these activities specifically because of their value in forging nationalist values in the youth to overcome the disparate national identities reflected among the adult population as a whole. The youth were called sabras, the Hebrew term for a prickly pear, to distinguish them from the wartime refugees that made up the bulk of the population. In America. many churches organize similar programs to vitalize the faith and inspire allegiance to a common set of moral standards among youth. How is all of that anything except social regimentation?

[TXduckdog]

I hardly see the activities you mention, including church activites as regimentation.

For one, they are not instituted or controlled by an autocratic controller....such as congress....who just because they are elected officials and may well be unelected in the near future can still and do act in an autocratic or fascist manner.

Regimentation has the notion of a systematic plan of control or governmental rule.

You speak of a mandated group environment.

I see none of the mentioned activities as being a mandated group environment. But rather a loosely formed group of people with common interests and values. I also don't see taught values whether in a school or civic setting and certainly in a church setting as "a program of inculcating group values" and I certainly don't see efforts to "subsume individual identity within the group".

The 2 groups you mention...the Russian example is political brain washing. The Kibbutzim is definitely social engineering.

The aforementioned activities are neither and don't come close in comparison.

Which takes me back to my original point....there is tremendous movement in this country that we've not ever seen to create governmental control...intrusion if you will into areas never before attempted. These are heavy handed attempts to extend governmental control.....regimentation via government mandate....over everything from the cars we drive, to the amount of fat content in our food, to how big of bonuses we get, to where to set our thermostats,
to being forced to have health insurance.....and the type of medical treatment we will be allowed to have.

If the American people would just roll over and let it happen.....those currently in political power would turn this country into a fascist/socialist state in no time at all....including the stripping of constitutional rights such as gun ownership.

I don't care how you want to intellectualize it....the Dems and this administration have played their hand.....it's plain to see that they are out to radically alter our free society as we know it. From what I have seen so far, I believe that there is NOTHING off the table for these people...up to and including voting rights.

[zeus3925]

In response to TXduckdog's post above:

Legislatures in a democratic republic, such as ours, are the ones that get to set the rules for the society. Governments are meant to govern-- that is to act as a control. The framers of the Constitution set the reelection of the House because they recognized that public opinion can change on a dime. It is designed to reflect the mind of the people in a current mode.

Society is quite a bit different in the 21st century than in the 18th when the republic was established. With the advances in society, new legislation is needed over time to address new issues as they arise. It often requires that the Congress moves into areas where it has not trod before. Moving into new areas of itself is not autocratic intrusion. However, most regulation will meet with some disapproval somewhere because it imposes a rule of conduct that forces change. Humans as a rule do not like change.

My longtime mantra has been that population density is the greatest threat to freedom and liberty. In the late 18th century, you could take your wife , kids and dogs through the Cumberland Gap to homestead far away from nagging neighbors. If your dog howled at the full moon the only ones offended would be kids and sweet spouse. You could hunt all year without a license. Throw your dishwater into a stream. No one downstream to care.

Fast forward to today's urban environment, where if your dog wishes to serenade the moon, the animal control officer will respond to the calls of your sleepless neighbors and you will get a ticket to go see the judge. If it happens repeatedly, the government may even confiscate your pooch. Then there are dog licenses, containment laws and leash ordinances. Regulations on the number of dogs you can own. Why? Enough of your sleepless neighbors sought government regulation to protect them from your pooch.

There are six billion people on the planet. All of them want to at least be able to feed their families. Most aspire to our standard of living. That means more people polluting on their drive to work and making products. The resources of the earth are finite. Competition for those finite resources is going to invite more regulation.

The solution is simple but unpopular: Stop reproducing!

[TXduckdog]

VERRY interesting, Sarge.

[ducknwork]

The solution is simple but unpopular: Stop reproducing!

You first.




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