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Thread: What's the trend?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Alain's Avatar
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    Default What's the trend?

    Hi,

    In the case where an EIC carrier stud breed a clear dam or vice versa, pups would be all tested, what is the trend? And What it will be? Are carrier pup will be sold less expensive? Does people who buy pups will look for the better pup no matter clear / carrier?

    I think i do know the answer, but i would like your opinion.

    Thanks everyone,

    Alain Jetté

  2. #2
    Senior Member Lucky Number Seven's Avatar
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    Your standard percentage would 50% using the Punnett Square method.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Alain's Avatar
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    Hi Lucky,

    What do you mean by the Punnet Square method?
    Excuse my ignorance, i'm french and have no idea what is the meaning.

    Alain

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    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Assuming that BB represents a dog that is EIC Clear, Bb represents a dog that is an EIC Carrier, and bb represents a dog that is EIC Affected, the Punnett Square method would estimate possible outcomes of breeding two carriers as follows:

    The probability of an individual offspring having the genotype BB is 25%, Bb is 50%, and bb is 25%.

    _________Maternal (Bb)
    Paternal ____BB____Bb
    (Bb)________ Bb____bb


    Where the mother is EIC Clear and the sire is a Carrier, the genotypes would be as follows with 50% of offspring expected to be clear (BB) and 50% expected to be Carriers (Bb)

    _________Maternal (BB)
    Paternal ____BB____Bb
    (Bb)________ Bb____BB
    Last edited by YardleyLabs; 10-23-2009 at 06:19 AM. Reason: fix formatting

  5. #5
    Senior Member Alain's Avatar
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    Thanks Yardley!

    I did know that, but didn't know it was call the Punnett square method.

    I'm curious to know what is the trend in US about EIC Clear / carrier pups.
    I will breed my clear bitch to a carrier stud, breeding is due very soon, this breeding is very expected from top field trial trainers, both dogs are consider by far top 2 dogs out here. I have already sold 4 clear pups. I have decided to sell the clear pup more expensive then the carrier.
    Is that the trend? Does people in US are looking only for good clear dog only?

    Thanks

    Alain

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    I think this varies by the individual. Those who understand genetics and just want a top performer don't care if the pup is clear or carrier, however, it does impact your breeding options and the demand for carriers is less so some people looking to breed the dog will insist on a clear pup. Some people will insisit on clear regardless. I don't like the idea of dropping a price for carrier pups, but essentially, that is what I have done. I price the entire litter a bit less and then if people insist on clear, I explain that the price will be higher. My wishes would be to price the entire litter the same, and not test, but I don't think people would accept that. I think most breeders offer clear pups at a higher price up front and reduce the price for carriers. I'm not sure about what people do if they don't test the litter. There are still some people out there that don't even know what EIC is. I know someone who ended up with 2 EIC affected littermates, and the breeder repeated the breeding this year!

    The probabilites of carriers in the litter are as predicted by the Punnett square, but remember this is a prediction. You could end up with all carriers, all clear, or something in between.
    Ann
    Fountain City, WI
    www.terrun.com

  7. #7
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    I don't test the pups in my clear to carrier litters, so far, not an issue. If someone insists on a clear pup, they can go to litters with both parents clear (we're talking eic/cnm here). I've found most of my buyers to not be interested in breeding so they only care about non affected. I can totally understand people wanting clear if they intend to breed down the road, if for no other reason than it is easier breeding clear to clear, but for my particular homes, carrier status hasn't been the issue I thought it would be.
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

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    Senior Member firehouselabs's Avatar
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    I test our clear/carrier litters when I am keeping back a pup for myself or in the case where I am placing a pup in a competitive home with the intent for breeding in the future. Since I have been keeping back females, I test all the females. In the case of my current litter, I want to keep back a yellow female of which I have three to choose from. I am only testing the dewclaws of those three pups. When people come to pick their pups, they know ahead of time that there is a 50/50 shot of the pup being a carrier. I let them pick the pup that fits them the best in regards to personality, ability, and other criteria. The test results from the univ Minn are in the puppy packet along with the warranty, registration papers, cerf papers, etc...
    If I think that I need to spend a bit more time with a certain buyer on EIC, CNM, OFA, CERF, etc.. then and only then do I get the results out and go over all the precautions with a fine tooth comb.

    As far as pricing goes, they are all priced the same. I also do not price differently for color or sex. One thing that you can do is come up with the price that you feel is fair and market supported. Then price the clears higher and the carriers lower in a fashion that the average price per pup in the litter still equals the price that you came up with.
    Raina Anderson WWW.FIREHOUSELABS.COM

    According to this BMI chart, I am too short !!!


  9. #9
    Senior Member ErinsEdge's Avatar
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    It all depends on who buys your pups. Most people aren't interested in breeding but they are interested in a healthy puppy that is not affected. If people are looking for breeding, you can guarantee that they will want a clear pup. If a breeder wants to market to people that want to breed and test, that is their choice, but I won't be one of those testing. I don't sell on full unless I know the buyer or they have satisfied me that they will breed responsibly. I have only had one person question it and I have told them if they want clear only and one of the parents is a carrier, there should be other litters out there for them.
    Nancy P



    "We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made." M.Facklam

  10. #10
    Senior Member Alain's Avatar
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    From what i ear and read about this, i really think that pups from very good title (FC AFC)clear EIC / CNM dog with solid pedegre will be more and more expensive, i mean big $$$$.
    I really think that is what is coming.
    It is my first breeding, all people that have call ask for clear pup.
    I think it says it all.

    Alain Jetté

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