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Thread: Vice President Dick Cheney – A great American

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    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Default Vice President Dick Cheney – A great American

    Vice President Dick Cheney – A great American

    Did he say the current President is dithering?

    Have a listen about 12:45 in.

    BTW lefties, here is an opportunity to hear what the man says instead of sound bites.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URXg53pqpHw
    Last edited by subroc; 10-24-2009 at 10:18 AM.
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    When I read the title of this thread, my first thought was it should be moved to the "Joke Room".

    Dick Cheney publically stated on the record that we do not condone or support torture, and then cast the abu gharib enlisted soldiers to prison sentences, proclaiming them as "a few bad apples."

    He then not only admitted to, but bragged about the "enhanced interrogation techniques" such as those used at our prisons.

    No leader should ever slink away from their command decisions, and rest the blame with those who carried them out! That man disgraced the institutions he swore to uphold, and as a veteran, I will never forgive him for what he did to our troops.

    There were people relieved of commands and enlisted troops court-martialed and imprisoned for carrying out his directives, all the while he was denying he knew anything about it.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

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    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Part of your position lies is the question, what is torture when discussing enhanced interrogation techniques?

    Abu Gharib was not part of the enhanced interrogation techniques program. It has been repeatedly illustrated that the actions of some bad and foolish individuals along with a lack of oversight is what constituted what occurred there. If you wish to characterize it as something else like a systemic problem, it is ok with me, but it is not the truth.

    Vice President Dick Cheney – A great American.
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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    Stacking up a bunch of necked guys and making them wear leashes is not torture.
    Its an everyday occurance in san fransisco. People come from miles around there to join in the party

    Pete

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    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Stacking up a bunch of necked guys and making them wear leashes is not torture.
    Its an everyday occurance in san fransisco. People come from miles around there to join in the party

    Pete
    Might be your thing, but it ain't mine.

    Far, far worse took place. Its in the public record, Dick Cheney even says so. I would recommend you ask Mancow (not a flaming liberal) whether torture occured under our watch.

    We are better than that. The world looks up to us, for the moral standard that we uphold. That's the country I grew up in and defended.

    And let me say this seemingly contradictory statement: If, for whatever reason you MUST resort to these tactics.....do it like we used to ....secretly! Don't let your inflated ego allow you to brag about it publically on conservative talk shows for God's sake!!!!

    I probably won't convince you that Dick Cheney is a lying scoundrel that set this country on its heels with his failed policy he pushed through his puppet boy.....and I can promise you that you won't convince me that he's some kind of hero. (except to draft dodgers and deferment hogs for showin' them how it's done!) So we should probably just agree to disagree on this one.
    Last edited by dnf777; 10-24-2009 at 12:19 PM.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

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    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Fair enough, we agree to disagree.

    BTW, did you view the speech?
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    I probably won't convince you that Dick Cheney is a lying scoundrel that set this country on its heels with his failed policy he pushed through his puppet boy.....
    Do you even remember all the other posts you've previously written stating that you always convey respect to the president, that you use their proper title and never resort to childish name calling? Probably not, since I'm sure you also don't remember all the posts you've written about how much you detest hypocrisy and hypocrites.
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

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    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    I didn't call him any names besides "Dick Cheney", which IS his name. I said I probably wouldn't convince someone that he was a lying scoundrel. "Convince" is the action verb, "Dick Cheney is a lying scoundrel" was the operative of that action verb, not a statement being attested to in the sentence.

    Jeez, I hated grammar when I was a kid. Please figure this stuff out on your own, so you quit your nagging accusations. They're very tiresome. You remind me of the smart kid in class who just lurks and waits to criticize everytime you think there's an opportunity.

    Subroc,
    I got through most of it, but have a house full of a sick wife and 3 kids, and a wicked "honey do" list!
    Believe it or not, I was somewhat of a fan of Mr. Cheney's, during his stint as SecDef. If you recall his speech defending Mr. Bush's decision NOT to invade Baghdad after GulfWar I, he articulated perfectly the disasters that would befall such a strategy, without an exit plan, or nation-building plan, or a strategy to deal with insurgency. He hit the nail square on the head, then flip-flopped 180 degrees after becoming VP. He lost my respect after that.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YENbElb5-xY
    Last edited by dnf777; 10-24-2009 at 04:10 PM.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

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    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    I watched the vid. I am not sure what that has to do with an action that takes place in the shadow of 9-11.
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    Vice President Dick Cheney – A great American

    Did he say the current President is dithering?

    Have a listen about 12:45 in.

    BTW lefties, here is an opportunity to hear what the man says instead of sound bites.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URXg53pqpHw
    I wasn't going to listen for two reasons: first, as a few here like to mention over and over, Bush/Cheney ain't in the WH any more, and second, because I have spent more hours than I would have wished listening to Cheney speak and, despite having believed him originally to be one of the bests parts of the GWB administration, came to believe that he was one of the scariest and most dangerous men to ever serve in his position.

    Despite these reservations, I decided that it was only fair, in the interest of discussion, to go ahead and listen. I am sure you would do the same if I suggested that you listen to a liberal speaking for 30 minutes. My take away is as follows:

    Around the 3:40 mark he talks about the importance of maintaining commitments made by prior administrations. How is that reconciled with the rejection of the Kyoto and Land Mine treaties negotiated by Clinton and rejected by Bush? How does it relate to the cancellation of the ABM treaty in place since 1972? How does it relate to a unilateral reinterpretation of the Geneva Convention? In its first years the Bush administration totally redefined our diplomatic posture in the world by unwinding and disavowing numerous international agreements and methods of operation with which it disagreed. How does that improve of ability to be a reliable partner in international accords? And yet, the abandonment of mssile defense agreements negotiated but never ratified by the Bush administration is a breech of good faith by Obama. The logic escapes me.

    Cheney's comments on the obvious dangers of Putin ring a little hollow coming years after the Bush administration declared Putin to be one of its greatest friends (Contrast Bush's declarations of friedship in 2001 with Cheney's comments at 5:20 concerning those who tried placating Putin). Add that to the fact that the manner in which the US invaded Iraq, in a move reportedly architected in large part by Cheney and Rumsfeld, provided political cover to Putin in his invasion of Georgia.

    At about 5:40, Cheney describes Iran's flawed election as part of what the Obama administration "received" in return for its abandonment of the anti missile agreements with Poland and the Czechs. Interesting reasoning since the election happened long before the change in policy on the missile agreement.

    At about 8:40, Cheney says that unless Iran fears real consequences from its lack of cooperation, it will continue to do as it wishes. He doesn't mention, somehow, that a primary reason for Iran's ascendancy in the Middle East has been the manner in which the US invaded Iraq and misjudged to cost and consequences of our efforts at regime change including proving how incapable we would be of initiating any similar efforts against Iran.

    Beginning around minute 11, Cheney begins attacking the Obama administration for waffling on Afghanistan implying that there had be widespred agreement that the Bush administration policies in Afghanistan were viewed positively by almost all. He attacks Pbama for not agreeing quickly to adding 40,000 additional troops while ignoring the fact that for years the bush administration starved tohe war effort in Afghanistan to support its folly in Iraq, adding troops only during the last year. He ignores that fact that the number of troops in Afghanistan has been tripled from what it was under his watch and acts as if nothing has been done. At about the 13 minute mark he begins attacking the administration for its criticisms of Bush policies on Afghanistan and its failure to conduct a full scale policy review. What is his response? The Bush administration did such a review in the fall of 2008, after seven years of war, andturned over recommendations including the counter insurgency approaches now under consideration. What happened during the prior seven years? Talk about waffling....

    Around 14:40, Cheney describes the fact that we were invlved in supporting the mujuhadin in Afghanistan against the Soviets -- what Cheney describes as a successful strategy. He then popints out the negative consequences when we walked away from Afghanistan (not mentioning who was president when we did so) and including the rise of Bin Ladin, who he doesn't mention as among those we previously supported with our "successful" strategies before.

    15:35, Cheney returns to his defense of torture. Somehow that is not a commitment violation....

    18:40 he begins his complaints about criticism of the administration and the slander and demagoguery of the left. Would that the left were the only ones doing that...

    22:30 -- "For all that we've lost in the conflict, we have never lost our moral bearings..." I respectfully disagree. I believe Cheney lost his long ago by engaing in just the form of moral relativism that in other circumstances he would decry.

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