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Thread: Michelle Obama elitist?

  1. #21
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    c3r,

    Take a look at the first post on this thread and ask yourself, is this an invitation to genuine, highbrow, intellectual discussion? Or just another political jab?
    Maybe my responces have been measured by the intent of the thread starter. You made a post, I responded in kind.
    Don't kid yourself, PP, with few exceptions, has never been about 'discussion'.

    JD
    Last edited by JDogger; 10-31-2009 at 11:22 AM.
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  2. #22
    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    Republican Elitism

    Every day, Republicans lace into Democrats as elitist. I think they do that because these super-rich, super-religious and super-anti-intellectual people are so smug in their self-righteousness - so elitist - that they believe everyone else suffers from the same hubris as they do. Democrats are not concerned with any elite group. They believe that all citizens should be treated the same. With Republicans, however, elitism is at its core.
    We all know how the Bush Administration favors the super-rich. Just take a look at the major pieces of legislation the Republican Congresss passed this year that favor bankers, energy companies and pharmaceutical companies,
    JD
    Yes, that was just wrong. Let's just give all the money to the non working poor. When was the last time a poor person gave you a job?

  3. #23
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by code3retrievers View Post
    Jeff,

    Thanks for the correcting my previous post. I have corrected it above.

    I don't think you can have it both ways. You blame the current problems on Arnold which we know is not a conservative when he walked into a financial mess from Grey Davis and the liberal legislature, but you blame current NJ problems on Whitman when when she left office in 2001. NJ has had 7 years to fix the problems.

    I don't expect Obama to fix everything in 1 year but if he has 8 years, I expect some progress.

    This is the issue. No body, both Republicans and Dems want to fix any problems. Every one wants to blame the other party and can not honestly critique their own. They continue to pile on debt and spend like there is no tomorrow. ( You can't do both)

    I will be the first to say any Republican that does not want to control spending should be thrown out. I would be happy to give up tax cuts for a little financial responsibility.

    AZ is also in a mess. We are a Red state that had a Dem for a Governor and a Republican legislature. They increased spending much in the same way CA has with no increase in long term revenue and now we are not far from CA's mess.

    Jdog- I would expect nothing less from you then a stupid comment. See, you still don't get how this discussion thing works. Now how about you try and jump in on a discussion somewhere.
    Just corrected your post to show that Whitman left in 2001, not 2008. Obviously this was just a typo given your 8 year comment. I would generally agree with you but for the depth of the hole that Gov. Whitman dug for the state. Before she became Governor, NJ had managed to operate for most of its history with no debt. Florio lost his job by raising taxes dramatically and very stupidly. These funds went primarily to implementing changes in educational funding to comply with state law and to other programs that reduced local property taxes. Whitman promised a rollback on these cits and delivered following her election. However, she did not rescind the increases in local educational support or property tax relief, producing a multi-billion dollar deficit. This was met through an annual ritual of one tie actions. She raided billions from the pension fund, leaving the fund short on cash and increasing the annual deficit as actions were needed to cover some of the gap. She sold off a number of state assets in ways that left the state paying annually for things it previously owned. Finally, she put together budgets that were based on wildly unrealistic revenue projections and covered the resulting gaps with massive borrowings. Where NJ had a platinum coated credit rating when she took office, it was virtually bankrupt when she left.

    Her replacement, Jim McGreevey took some very unpopular actions to try to shrink the Whitman disaster. Public opposition and his own sexual confusion undermined his ability to be effective. Following his resignation, he was temporarily replaced by the State Assembly leader as acting governor who was both effective and popular. Knowing how deep the problems were, however, he declined to run for election. Corzine ran on a platform of fiscal responsibility. Unfortunately, in NJ, fiscal responsibility demanded massive cuts in services combined with a rollback of state aid and tax rebates that would have the effect of raising taxes again. There is simply no other way to overcome the massive deficits that have accumulated from Whitman's actions as Governor. Corzine did this and became one of the most unppular governors in the state's history as a result. Chris Christie is now running against him on a Whitman like platform: he will reduce taxes without cutting services. All this will produce is more deficits that the state cannot repay. Personally, I think NJ needs to adopt a strict fiscal accountability act carrying jail terms for governors who incur deficits. Of course, given that many NJ governors belong in jail anyway, I'm not sure how much of a difference this would make.

    In the interests of full disclosure, I served on the Governir's Management Improvement Task Force under Florio. I reviewed some of the recommendations at that time for reducing funding for pensions to obtain one time savings. I pointed out that this would be a disastrous strategy for the state. Florio, a tax and spend liberal, did not implement this as a result. Whitman picked up the original recommendation and used it to pay for the first year of her tax cuts.

  4. #24

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    Thanks for the correction again.

    As for Jdog- You may want to follow Jeffs lead. I may not agree with his assesment but he put forth valid arguments and shed light on a few items that he has knowledge about.

    I rarely agree with him but at least he attmepts to have a discussion with the facts as he sees them.
    Last edited by code3retrievers; 10-31-2009 at 06:50 PM.

  5. #25
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by code3retrievers View Post
    Thanks for the correction again.

    As for Jdog- You may want to follow Jeffs lead. I may not agree with his assesment but he put forth valid arguments and shed light on a few items that he has knowledge about.

    I rarely agree with him but at least he attmepts to have a discussion with the facts as he sees them.
    I am not Jeff. I am not Joe S. I am not Buzz.
    Buzz countered your post with a citation from snopes.
    I'm sure Jeff is pleased with your assesment that he 'attempts' to discuss the 'facts as he sees them'.
    Don't we all?
    I suspect snopes as well as any here, but you made no challenge. I assume you concur then that many FL's have had significant staff members.
    Did you read my last post c3r? You started this thread with a post concerning 'elitism'. You made an eight word statement and gave a link.
    I countered with another link, and copied and pasted it.
    Hardly an invatation to the civil discourse you seem so much to crave.
    Again I ask you, was your opening thread starter intended to start a discussion, or was it merely a political jab?
    Please this time, answer the question?

    JD
    Last edited by JDogger; 10-31-2009 at 11:27 PM.
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  6. #26
    Senior Member Richard Halstead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie R. View Post
    Yes, that was just wrong. Let's just give all the money to the non working poor. When was the last time a poor person gave you a job?
    When did the wealthy democrats volunteer to share their wealth. ie George Soros. Ideally the wealthy should support those that are indigent.
    cave canem...beware of the dog
    Richard Halstead (halst001 at yahoo.com)

    http://www.browndogmafia.com/finalists.html

  7. #27
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Halstead View Post
    When did the wealthy democrats volunteer to share their wealth. ie George Soros. Ideally the wealthy should support those that are indigent.
    I sometimes give a couple bucks to the couple with a black dog on a leash sitting on the off ramp as I come home from work. I don't ask their political affiliation. They have a dog that shares their life with them, and that's good enough for me. They're usually gone by the next day.
    I live by a prison, makes hitch-hiking difficult, with the warning signs and all.
    When did the wealthy Republicans volunteer to share their wealth? Goes both ways don't it?

    JD
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  8. #28
    Senior Member Richard Halstead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    When did the wealthy Republicans volunteer to share their wealth? Goes both ways don't it?

    JD

    The Democrats, Obama, wanted to spread the wealth around. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need (or needs) is a slogan popularized by Karl Marx in his 1875 Critique of the Gotha Program.
    cave canem...beware of the dog
    Richard Halstead (halst001 at yahoo.com)

    http://www.browndogmafia.com/finalists.html

  9. #29
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Halstead View Post
    When did the wealthy democrats volunteer to share their wealth. ie George Soros. Ideally the wealthy should support those that are indigent.
    Let's see, Gates has donated billions (almost $10 billion) for charitable projects through the Gates Foundation, Soros has contributed hundreds of millions per year (average of $300-500 million) through his own Foundation (providing scholarships), through various international poverty relief foundations, etc. Soro's personal objective has actually been to give more in philanthropy than the Ford Foundation. Warren Buffett, in turn, donated $37 billion to charity. Ted Turner has donated hundreds of millions. More importantly, he suggested that the measure of success should not be how much you make but how much you give. That inspired the Slate 60 List which annually lists the 60 largest public donors (excluding some of the largest, who prefer to be anonymous). This list happily includes a mix of liberals, moderates, and conservatives.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Richard Halstead's Avatar
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    I am not a Republican or a Democrat my personal philosophy more closely approaches that of a conservative Libertarian. In the last nine years neither Bush or Obama has tried to end unnecessary spending. Both Presidents must not have been told that each trip on Air Force One doesn't add to frequent flyer miles.

    I would like to see those without health care put into a group with the same type of health care that the federal employees receive without changing the entire system.
    cave canem...beware of the dog
    Richard Halstead (halst001 at yahoo.com)

    http://www.browndogmafia.com/finalists.html

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