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Thread: Two countries-Same pitfalls?

  1. #1
    Senior Member signgirl's Avatar
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    Default Two countries-Same pitfalls?

    For the record, I was born in Canada but a lot of my family is in the U.S. I have been a life long political junkie.

    For my whole adult life Canada has been politically to the left of the U.S. Not any more.

    Starting in 1968, we elected an intellectual, youthful, handsome, Kensyian, powerfully erudite and 'charismatic' Liberal named Pierre Trudeau. We can thank him for increasing our National Debt by 85% when he left office for the last time in 1984..(no term limits here). He was divisive and was either loved or despised. He grew social programs, legislated forced bilingualism, created many Crown Corporations which competed (with gov't funded pockets) with Private Companies, expanded hugely and mandated socialized health care, (by outlawing Private Medicine) spent money like it fell from the sky and left our small economy in a quagmire. After 25 years of fiscal frugality and repayment, our debt is manageable and shrinking. There is a blip this year during this world recession, but it should only be a one year negative flow.

    The U.S. seems to do things in Spades. What mistakes we made 40+ years ago, you are repeating and compounding. Watch out is all I can say. Mr. Trudeau was a Silk Stocking Socialist...a wealthy Jesuit educated Law Professor, insulated, brilliant but imbued with the theories of Mao, Marks, Castro, Che...Although perfectly bilingual, he despised and turned his back to our British roots and traditions. He embraced and legislated a cultural 'mosaic' which now has the tail wagging the dog. Much of his legacy lives on still...Human Rights tribunals who have huge powers but no accountability, political correctness gone mad, a National Healthcare system on the verge of bankruptcy where 12 hour Emergency room waits aren't abnormal and 18 month waits for scarce Medical Specialists aren't either.
    A huge percentage of Canadians do not have a family Physician and many rural areas have no M.D.s. At least 4 small Community hospitals in my area have been legislated to close their E.R.s and emergencies are being sent up to 40 miles away.

    What you see or think you see is not always what you get.

    The following is from a respected publication...

    http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/11002
    Medie Robinson
    Kilbride, Ontario

    I Hear and I Forget...I See and I Remember...I Do and I Understand

  2. #2
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    I afraid you are right on with your evaulation
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    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    signgirl,
    I share many of your concerns. I am NOT just trying to bring up the distant, remote past, (you know, 10 months to 8 years ago! ) but to simplify the debt issue to saying it's because a leftist president I think is dangerous. It would lead on to believe that voting a conservative will solve the problem. I urge you to google our national debt that is portrayed as a red/blue pie chart of the $11 trillion, and you will see, it is not a "liberal" issue. In fact, the last president to have a balanced budget, let alone surplus, was Bill Clinton. Several have posted a chart with a presidential time line as the x-axis, and it its amazing how the curve shot upwards in 2003!
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

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    share many of your concerns. I am NOT just trying to bring up the distant, remote past, (you know, 10 months to 8 years ago! ) but to simplify the debt issue to saying it's because a leftist president I think is dangerous. It would lead on to believe that voting a conservative will solve the problem. I urge you to google our national debt that is portrayed as a red/blue pie chart of the $11 trillion, and you will see, it is not a "liberal" issue. In fact, the last president to have a balanced budget, let alone surplus, was Bill Clinton. Several have posted a chart with a presidential time line as the x-axis, and it its amazing how the curve shot upwards in
    It has nothing to do with weather you call yourself a lefty or a righty . It has everything you do with weather you act like a lefty or a righty.
    Bush acted like a lefty so its time you ignored the labeling and open up the jar.



    Pete

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    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    It has nothing to do with weather you call yourself a lefty or a righty . It has everything you do with weather you act like a lefty or a righty.
    Bush acted like a lefty so its time you ignored the labeling and open up the jar.
    Pete
    If Bush acted like a lefty, then so did his dad, and so did Reagan. That's the problem with labels. The get very confusing. If every republican president in my lifetime ran up billion or trillion dollar deficits, and the two democrats in my lifetime remained budget neutral or ran surplus, isn't time to re-affix the labels appropriately, rather than saying "one is acting like the other"? Maybe it should be "balance budget democrats" and "borrow and spend republicans"?? Then they wouldn't have to exchange name-tags.

    Now of course, Obama may change all that.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

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    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    The core of the discussion really seems to be fiscal responsibility more than any attendant ideology.

    When times are good, Reagan was able to reduce taxes and have it result in an increase in revenue. When times are bad, if you increase taxes your revenue can decrease. A business that is already struggling, if hit with higher taxing, can go under, with an ultimate result of zero tax revenue.

    Few commented on the Chilean leader who saved copper revenues when they were abundant, invested them wisely and can now draw on that compounded revenue to fund social programs, like education & childcare, that can further grow their economy.

    Our govt, OTOH, is following the pattern of all those people who bought houses they couldn't afford during the housing frenzy ... i.e. borrowing to fund a lifestyle for which they had not saved.
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    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    The core of the discussion really seems to be fiscal responsibility more than any attendant ideology.

    When times are good, Reagan was able to reduce taxes and have it result in an increase in revenue. When times are bad, if you increase taxes your revenue can decrease. A business that is already struggling, if hit with higher taxing, can go under, with an ultimate result of zero tax revenue.

    Few commented on the Chilean leader who saved copper revenues when they were abundant, invested them wisely and can now draw on that compounded revenue to fund social programs, like education & childcare, that can further grow their economy.

    Our govt, OTOH, is following the pattern of all those people who bought houses they couldn't afford during the housing frenzy ... i.e. borrowing to fund a lifestyle for which they had not saved.
    Unfortunately, Reagan not only cut taxes but increased spending dramatically resulting in a massive deficit and the largest growth in the national debt since WWII. He was very popular, but that is not to hard when you buy happiness by maxing out yur credit cards.

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    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Unfortunately, Reagan not only cut taxes but increased spending dramatically resulting in a massive deficit and the largest growth in the national debt since WWII. He was very popular, but that is not to hard when you buy happiness by maxing out yur credit cards.
    Sounds a lot like the current administration, but without the manufacturing base and jobs.

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    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    Sounds a lot like the current administration, but without the manufacturing base and jobs.
    At the moment, this administration is definitely continuing the destructive deficit policies of Reagan and GWB. Hopefully it will not continue as the economy recovers, but I am afraid it will.

  10. #10
    Senior Member signgirl's Avatar
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    It matters not one whit which party overspent to balloon the debt..What matters is that such out of control spending, dependency on higher and higher taxes and creation of a cradle to grave nanny state are dreadfully hard policies to reverse or even to moderate. I think that the British National Health Service is something crazy like the 12th largest corporation in the world. Why would an American one be any different? Bureaucrats worldwide are the same. Their solution to any problem is hire more people and throw money at it.

    Universal health care in Canada is a sacred cow and woe betide any politician who challenges it or tries to reform it by introducing competition, or a user fee, or co-pay or anything that may make individuals more prudent in their use or abuse of the system. The mantra is 'one tier health care'.. ..no queue jumping or special treatment for the rich. Well, guess what? The rich in Canada have private clinics. They just travel to the U.S. Perhaps in a short time they will have to find an alternate.

    A little Civics lesson. Canada has 4 main political parties....Conservative, Liberal, New Democrat ( union based) and Bloc Quebecois (separatist). In the last 20 or so years, they have all stampeded to the middle of the road and knock into each other trying to be all things to all people. Currently we have a Conservative Prime Minister who is NOT a lawyer...but an economist. How refreshing. He has a minority Parliament and his Gov't could be defeated at any time if the opposition were organized enough and committed enough to band together. Any non confidence vote would have to be over something very contentious or they would pay at the polls....

    It is an interesting system and though frustrating, a minority Government has very strong checks and balances.

    Think back on the great leaders of this Century and what they had in common....Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Truman, Churchill, Regan, Thatcher, Trudeau..(my list)... like them or revile them, they all had amazingly strong convictions, stuck with them, made a distinct mark and made a difference. Today's leaders seem to govern by polls...a sure road to the proverbial dog's breakfast where no one will end up happy. Media rules.....gonads don't.
    Medie Robinson
    Kilbride, Ontario

    I Hear and I Forget...I See and I Remember...I Do and I Understand

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