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Thread: Questions for our Canadian RTF'ers on Health Care

  1. #21
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    I don't think that it is a fair comparison to compare health care to defense. The Constitution does specify that defense is a duty of the Federal govt.
    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    Like much of the document, open for interpretation. I don't think they were referring to health insurance companies, however.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE=YardleyLabs;519983]Tax deductions only help reduce Federal income taxes, not social security and medicare taxes. They are of almost no use at all to the majority of the population.

    Heck I'll take it where I can get, Fed. level or not.

    As far as the expand Medicade thing. Good thing. Add it up. If you make the people that are using it pay for it it would come out alright. Your payment amount, premium, would be based on your income. Take the 47 million who are unindured, fictional no doubt but never the less, at an average of 20 dollars a month and you get 940 mil. Divide that 50 ways, states, and you get 18.8 mil per state. That is just an average. Run the thing like a business instead of a hand out and you will have a winner. The way this bill is worded almost half of it will be paid for with tax increases on the wealthy and tax increases on services. This is a scam and screwing of us the American people. Your insurance prem. will go up because of the providers covering their butts and passing it on to us.

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    Martin
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  3. #23
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    I can tell you that I feel very fortunate to need only worry about the state of my health and not the state of my finances. If there is anything about our system which annoys me it is the serious under funding through out premium structure. I just paid our latest health insurance invoice and it is $288 for three months, that is for two persons...not $288. each but for the two of us. Thirty years ago I paid $90 for the same period...for myself alone! I pay more to insure a $30,000 car than what I pay to insure our health

    Try not getting drawn in to parroting Ayn Rand and Karl Marx's "from those who have...", here we think of it as the maximum number of subscribers paying into an insurance scheme all of us will draw from eventually. I don't consider it any greater or lesser display of Socialism than having my property tax entitling me to fire and police protection.

    It doesn't get brought up much anywhere but I heard somewhere that the Japanese health care plan has even the French beat.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member Nor_Cal_Angler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, [B]promote the general Welfare[/B], and secure the blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    Like much of the document, open for interpretation. I don't think they were referring to health insurance companies, however.
    See red.....those words ALL imply something PROVIDED heck one (as was pointed out) is PROVIDE.

    See blue.....this word imply's the government would like you to "pay attention" you know kinda like a sales pitch...maybe it should have said "hey you pay attention to your general welfare"

    NCA

    PS..notice the first 3 words are also...WE THE PEOPLE....not WE THE GOVERNMENT. It is the PEOPLE that are to provide those things that are in red and the PEOPLE that are to pay attention to the general welfare of this nation.

  5. #25
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nor_Cal_Angler View Post
    See red.....those words ALL imply something PROVIDED heck one (as was pointed out) is PROVIDE.

    See blue.....this word imply's the government would like you to "pay attention" you know kinda like a sales pitch...maybe it should have said "hey you pay attention to your general welfare"

    NCA

    PS..notice the first 3 words are also...WE THE PEOPLE....not WE THE GOVERNMENT. It is the PEOPLE that are to provide those things that are in red and the PEOPLE that are to pay attention to the general welfare of this nation.
    There are several definitions and usages of "promote". Open for interpretation, as I said.

    So are you also saying the "government" should not "provide" for the common defense? The whole purpose of the Consititution is just as stated. It delineates the powers of government, leaving those rights and privelages not mentioned to the states and people.

    From all the comments I hear on conservative outlets and some on this list, I'd swear that republicans think ALL gov't is bad, and there is no use for it, or ANY taxes whatsoever. That's called ANARCHY. There are islands in the Pacific where one can exercise anarchy freely.....that is, until someone with a bigger gun comes along.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  6. #26
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blind ambition View Post
    I can tell you that I feel very fortunate to need only worry about the state of my health and not the state of my finances. If there is anything about our system which annoys me it is the serious under funding through out premium structure. I just paid our latest health insurance invoice and it is $288 for three months, that is for two persons...not $288. each but for the two of us. Thirty years ago I paid $90 for the same period...for myself alone! I pay more to insure a $30,000 car than what I pay to insure our health

    Try not getting drawn in to parroting Ayn Rand and Karl Marx's "from those who have...", here we think of it as the maximum number of subscribers paying into an insurance scheme all of us will draw from eventually. I don't consider it any greater or lesser display of Socialism than having my property tax entitling me to fire and police protection.

    It doesn't get brought up much anywhere but I heard somewhere that the Japanese health care plan has even the French beat.
    I assume that someone else is paying the buk of the premium. I just paid mine -- $515 for one person for one month, not including dental. This will increase to $575 in January.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Hunchaser's Avatar
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    I'm a Canadian and I grew up with our present health care system. I'm now 59 yrs old. While I was attending university I worked part time in the OR at the Royal Jubliee Hospital in Victoria. My wife has been an RN for the past 40 yrs.

    We've always been in good health but about two years before I retired I developed severe chest pain. That was three years ago. I was taken care of very promptly and was given the best care possible. It turned out I had developed a reflux problem brought on by stress. We were living in Vancouver BC at the time.

    Then we retired to High River Alberta. A small community south of Calgary. I found a doctor right away with no problems. He retrieved my medical records and now I see him once per year.

    In saying that there problems. The line ups occur for non-life threatening items such minor broken bones and things like that. The other down side is the amount of taxes we pay for the service. It ain't cheap.

    If you guys adopt this system or a similar system be prepared to pay a lot more in taxes.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Nor_Cal_Angler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    There are several definitions and usages of "promote". Open for interpretation, as I said.

    So are you also saying the "government" should not "provide" for the common defense? The whole purpose of the Consititution is just as stated. It delineates the powers of government, leaving those rights and privelages not mentioned to the states and people.

    From all the comments I hear on conservative outlets and some on this list, I'd swear that republicans think ALL gov't is bad, and there is no use for it, or ANY taxes whatsoever. That's called ANARCHY. There are islands in the Pacific where one can exercise anarchy freely.....that is, until someone with a bigger gun comes along.
    We the people......

    that says that, the people DICTATE to the government the established form of justice, the insurance of domestic tranquility, the provision of defense and we promote the general welfare...followed by the part I should have highlighted in my origional post..."and secure the blessing of liberity to OURSELVES.

    where does it say that the governemnt DICTATES to the people.

    we have lost touch with that simple FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! of people for the people no if's ands or buts!!!!!!!

    opening remark..regards.
    (WE the PEOPLE)

  9. #29
    Senior Member Ron in Portland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunchaser View Post
    I'm a Canadian and I grew up with our present health care system. I'm now 59 yrs old. While I was attending university I worked part time in the OR at the Royal Jubliee Hospital in Victoria. My wife has been an RN for the past 40 yrs.

    We've always been in good health but about two years before I retired I developed severe chest pain. That was three years ago. I was taken care of very promptly and was given the best care possible. It turned out I had developed a reflux problem brought on by stress. We were living in Vancouver BC at the time.

    Then we retired to High River Alberta. A small community south of Calgary. I found a doctor right away with no problems. He retrieved my medical records and now I see him once per year.

    In saying that there problems. The line ups occur for non-life threatening items such minor broken bones and things like that. The other down side is the amount of taxes we pay for the service. It ain't cheap.

    If you guys adopt this system or a similar system be prepared to pay a lot more in taxes.
    Hunchaser, thanks for the feedback. I am somewhat heartened to hear some positive feedback on your health care system. I remain skeptical that our "politicians" can craft and administer a manageable plan.

    I do fear that the other half of your statement is all too true...
    Ron
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  10. #30
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Ron in Portland
    "...working population has twenty percent of their gross salary deducted at source..." and this is for a fund that covers 80% of the population.
    No matter how you slice it, as long as the contribution is based on gross income, those earning more are paying for those earning less. If someone earns $100,000, they pay $20,000. If someone earns $20,000, they pay $4000. The real cost of the services they will receive may, or may not, be smaller than the amount contributed.

    Makes me wonder what the total French tax bill is as well, after the health care stuff.

    I'd also like to compare other aspects of French daily living to that in the US. For example, some years ago (6 or more years ago), I dealt with a family of 4. Both parents worked for an international company, & they were on temporary assignment here in the US. Both earned what would be considered above-average income.

    The company they worked for was willing to pay $1500 for their rent during their assignment here. The home they left in France was a 2BR condo; basically an "apartment-style", in a large building. The home they rented here: 4BR, 2 ba, single home. My sense would be that the lifestyle we take forgranted here, has substantially more amenities than in France.

    "The contribution of financing through personal income taxes has gradually increased"
    That sounds familiar!
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