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Thread: Questions for our Canadian RTF'ers on Health Care

  1. #31
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nor_Cal_Angler View Post
    We the people......

    that says that, the people DICTATE to the government the established form of justice, the insurance of domestic tranquility, the provision of defense and we promote the general welfare...followed by the part I should have highlighted in my origional post..."and secure the blessing of liberity to OURSELVES.

    where does it say that the governemnt DICTATES to the people.

    we have lost touch with that simple FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! of people for the people no if's ands or buts!!!!!!!

    opening remark..regards.
    (WE the PEOPLE)
    ??????????????
    I've read the Constitution several times. The word "dictate" does not appear in regards to the government or people's actions. "Provide for the common defense and promote the general welfare does". Your extreme interpretation would not allow for police departments, court systems, or school crossing guards! They have tried that system in places such as East Timor, and it didn't work very well.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  2. #32
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Hunchaser;520265]I'm a Canadian and I grew up with our present health care system. I'm now 59 yrs old. While I was attending university I worked part time in the OR at the Royal Jubliee Hospital in Victoria. My wife has been an RN for the past 40 yrs.

    We've always been in good health but about two years before I retired I developed severe chest pain. That was three years ago. I was taken care of very promptly and was given the best care possible. It turned out I had developed a reflux problem brought on by stress. We were living in Vancouver BC at the time.

    Then we retired to High River Alberta. A small community south of Calgary. I found a doctor right away with no problems. He retrieved my medical records and now I see him once per year.

    In saying that there problems. The line ups occur for non-life threatening items such minor broken bones and things like that. The other down side is the amount of taxes we pay for the service. It ain't cheap.

    If you guys adopt this system or a similar system be prepared to pay a lot more in taxes.[/
    QUOTE]

    Even though you actually lived it, you must be mistaken for we have been told that the deficit will go down as well as not 1 dime of increase on taxes!!

    It must be true!!
    Stan b & Elvis

  3. #33
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    If you guys adopt this system or a similar system be prepared to pay a lot more in taxes.[/QUOTE]

    Even though you actually lived it, you must be mistaken for we have been told that the deficit will go down as well as not 1 dime of increase on taxes!!

    It must be true!!
    And that's what ticks me off ... it would be one thing to promote this program and tell the truth about what it will cost. It's quite another to prevaricate.

    I cannot fathom how, the way this is presented, it could be deficit-neutral. Especially when they reduced the penalty for non-participation.

    If France's and Canada's program are acknowledged as good programs, then the cost of those programs must also be acknowledged. Meanwhile they are spending lawmakers' time on this mess, when they could actually be doing something constructive about the situation.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  4. #34
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    If it is going to save so much money, we should begin to implement changes and reform NOW (note: not advocating the part about govt insurance). Then, when a significant amount of money is being saved, insurance premiums will drop, more people will be able to afford it, causing premiums to drop further, etc etc...Then, maybe we should help out the folks that still can't afford insurance and TRULY need assistance.



    Save now, spend later regards...

  5. #35
    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
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    If the so called percent is 15 that are uninsured and the number that have it are 85% why dont we just increase the cost of insurance by 15% to cover those who dont ?

    Surely a hundred times cheaper than letting the goobs get involved.

    BTW how can any group with a 20% approval rating be so egotistical as to think the know better ?
    "Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan

  6. #36
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    And that's what ticks me off ... it would be one thing to promote this program and tell the truth about what it will cost. It's quite another to prevaricate.

    I cannot fathom how, the way this is presented, it could be deficit-neutral. Especially when they reduced the penalty for non-participation.

    .

    Forget healthcare. Does anyone on this list honestly believe that taxes are NOT going to increase? If so, do you honestly think we'll ever get our finances in order and make a recovery carrying an $11 trillion debt?? We better look like we're at least INTERESTED in paying our bills, or it's going to be hard to find the light at the end of this tunnel.

    GWB used to talk the talk about "making sacrafice". WHAT sacrafice was he talking about? This is it folks, THIS is the sacrafice we're gonna have to make to pay for two wars and a host of other expenses. Get ready. It may hurt, and mean less vacations and fancy cars for us....but I'd rather make that sacrafice than hand this all off to my kids and grandkids and say, here, pay for it. WE have been handed the Reagan/Bush I/Bush II debt and asked to pay it, I don't want to do that to the next generations.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  7. #37
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/he...html?th&emc=th

    The NY Times today reported some of the figures that I've been wondering about.

    As the House moved toward climactic votes on legislation to remake the health care system, the Congressional Budget Office said Monday that middle-income families might be required to pay 15 percent to 18 percent of their income on insurance premiums and co-payments under the proposal.
    Under the House bill, the budget office said, a family of four with income of $78,000 in 2016 would pay, on average, an annual premium of $8,800 and co-payments of $5,000, for a total of $13,800, equivalent to 18 percent of the family’s income.
    A family of four with income of $90,100 could also receive subsidies. It would pay $11,100 in premiums and $5,500 in cost-sharing, for a total of $16,600, or 18 percent of family income, the budget office said.
    For lower-income people, the subsidies would be more generous. A family of four with income of $66,000 would pay premiums of $6,300 and cost-sharing of $3,700, for a total of $10,000, or 15 percent of its income in 2016, the budget office said.
    $8800/year = $733/mo $11,100/year = $925/mo $ 6300/year = $525/mo.

    This would appear to be lower than what these families might be paying now. OTOH, it is hard to know unless we also know how the benefits provided compare to present benefits.

    If the proposed program is starting with the presumption of paying 15% to 18% of income for health care protection, (and France is presently at 20%), can you begin to imagine where the US premiums will be after 10 years into the program?
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Forget healthcare. Does anyone on this list honestly believe that taxes are NOT going to increase? If so, do you honestly think we'll ever get our finances in order and make a recovery carrying an $11 trillion debt?? We better look like we're at least INTERESTED in paying our bills, or it's going to be hard to find the light at the end of this tunnel.

    GWB used to talk the talk about "making sacrafice". WHAT sacrafice was he talking about? This is it folks, THIS is the sacrafice we're gonna have to make to pay for two wars and a host of other expenses. Get ready. It may hurt, and mean less vacations and fancy cars for us....but I'd rather make that sacrafice than hand this all off to my kids and grandkids and say, here, pay for it. WE have been handed the Reagan/Bush I/Bush II debt and asked to pay it, I don't want to do that to the next generations.
    I totally agree with your post.

    However, sacrifice should start at the top and trickle down. No more expensive dates and vacations on our dime. Order a pizza and rent a movie like the rest of us poor bums. Lead by example.

    I think I'll order a copy of Dave Ramsey's book to send to the Prez. After he finishes reading it, he should pass it on to each member of congress.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/he...html?th&emc=th

    The NY Times today reported some of the figures that I've been wondering about.





    $8800/year = $733/mo $11,100/year = $925/mo $ 6300/year = $525/mo.

    This would appear to be lower than what these families might be paying now. OTOH, it is hard to know unless we also know how the benefits provided compare to present benefits.

    If the proposed program is starting with the presumption of paying 15% to 18% of income for health care protection, (and France is presently at 20%), can you begin to imagine where the US premiums will be after 10 years into the program?

    So far most of the big gooberment social programs were under estimated at 7-10 times more than originally estimated. using that math 7X18% =126% plus income,personal property, property, utility, sales, capital gains and a good number that I am forgeting my tax rate will be about 220% OK gotcha
    "Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan

  10. #40
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    I totally agree with your post.

    However, sacrifice should start at the top and trickle down.
    Where do Bush's tax cuts for the wealthiest 2% fit into that theory? They are up for renewal, so this is a current question, not just bush-bashing.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

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