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Thread: House plan mandates payment for abortions...by all.

  1. #31
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    But then I also believe in democracy even when I disagree with the results.

    Ah yes...democracy! That is a sham! We don't have a democracy. We don't even have a good representative republic. What we have and what you obviously believe in is an oligarchy. That's what's being foisted on this nation by your party.

    You may wish to hide your head in the sand, but it's sounding more like a duck every day. Fortunately many of those that were hoodwinked a year ago, unlike you and your followers, are beginning to see what is happening to their freedoms, and are starting to realize this isn't what they signed up for.

    Someday, even you might come to that realization.

    UB
    When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by blind ambition View Post
    No, but the lack of one could. Point is if you hate abortion fight to have it made illegal, not to remove funding from it while it is legal.
    I do what I can to fight it when I have the chance. Does that make you happy? Probably not, because you probably expected that I do nothing other than sit and complain about it.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    I do what I can to fight it when I have the chance. Does that make you happy? Probably not, because you probably expected that I do nothing other than sit and complain about it.

    Sir, I haven't taken the time to think at all on the subject of what you do or do not do and I don't look to your answers for my happiness. I'm simply giving you my opinion of where things could go to if every group that wished to could interfer with your health choices
    power without lumber, raciness without weediness

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post
    http://republicanleader.house.gov/blog/?p=666

    http://tinyurl.com/ya7a39c

    Speaker Pelosi’s Government-Run Health Plan Will Require a Monthly Abortion Premium

    Posted by GOP Leader Press Office on November 5th, 2009

    Health care reform should not be used as an opportunity to use federal funds to pay for elective abortions. Health reform should be an opportunity to protect human life - not end it.

    -more-
    As of now, abortions are a legal medical procedure. If you don't like abortions I suggest you not get one. I know I won't be getting one anytime soon. A woman has the right to choose what she does with her body. A women can either choose to have a baby or she can choose to abort. It is not up to the right wing zealots to make that decision for her.
    If you think the commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill" should be strictly followed, you must really be up in arms about all the people killed in the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, both Americans, Iraqi's and Afghanistan's. Or, better yet the far hypocritical right should adhere to another of the Commandments "Thou Shalt not commit adultery".
    Last edited by Roger Perry; 11-08-2009 at 07:44 AM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Perry View Post
    As of now, abortions are a legal medical procedure. If you don't like abortions I suggest you not get one. I know I won't be getting one anytime soon. A woman has the right to choose what she does with her body. A women can either choose to have a baby or she can choose to abort. It is not up to the right wing zealots to make that decision for her.
    If you think the commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill" should be strictly followed, you must really be up in arms about all the people killed in the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, both Americans, Iraqi's and Afghanistan's. Or, better yet the far hypocritical right should adhere to another of the Commandments "Thou Shalt not commit adultery".
    First, I don't think adultery is exclusive to the right, although you will probably contest that it is.

    Second, nobody has made any religious references on this thread in opposition to abortion. (Correct me if I'm wrong) You are the first to bring up 'Thou shalt not kill'. Apparently, you assume that religion is the only reason that someone could possibly be opposed to abortion. I have asked more than once about these other foolish examples that our resident libs have given and whether or not they take away a human's right to life. I have received no responses. (Big surprise) So, perhaps Mr. Perry can shed some light on the subject. What other legal medical procedure takes away the right to life from a human being (not to mention an innocent one that cannot defend itself)?


    Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness regards,

  6. #36
    Senior Member Leddyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Perry View Post
    As of now, abortions are a legal medical procedure. If you don't like abortions I suggest you not get one. I know I won't be getting one anytime soon. A woman has the right to choose what she does with her body. A women can either choose to have a baby or she can choose to abort. It is not up to the right wing zealots to make that decision for her.
    If you think the commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill" should be strictly followed, you must really be up in arms about all the people killed in the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, both Americans, Iraqi's and Afghanistan's. Or, better yet the far hypocritical right should adhere to another of the Commandments "Thou Shalt not commit adultery".
    There is none so blind as one who will not see.

    The commandment you cite is found in Exodus 20:13. It was written in Hebrew just so you know.
    From the theological wordbook of the old testament:
    Thou shalt not MURDER.
    rāṣaḥ (murder) is a purely Hebrew term. It has no clear cognate in any of the contemporary tongues. The root occurs thirty-eight times in the ot, with fourteen occurrences in Num 35. The initial use of the root appears in the Ten Commandments (Ex 20:13). In that important text it appears in the simple Qal stem with the negative adverb, “You shall not murder,” being a more precise reading than the too-general KJV “thou shalt not kill.”
    Harris, R. Laird ; Harris, Robert Laird ; Archer, Gleason Leonard ; Waltke, Bruce K.: Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament. electronic ed. Chicago : Moody Press, 1999, c1980, S. 860

    Our troops are not murdering the enemy. Unless you think they are murderers and would like to weigh in on that.
    Unborn children are being murdered. Unless you think there is some kind of war against the unborn you want to tell us about.
    The word in Hebrew is murder. English sometimes gets in the way of our understanding of Biblical languages.

    Since you want to argue using the Bible, let's see what it says about unborn children shall we.

    Psalm 139: For You formed my inward parts;
    You covered me in my mother’s womb.
    14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
    The New King James Version.

    Isaiah 44: 24 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;

    Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

    Pretty clear what God thinks about the unborn. They are His, He formed them and He has a purpose for them. People murder them out of convenience. They have enough to worry about without having to live with the consequences of their own bad decisions. Easier to take the life out of the womb than raise a child. So anyway it is a choice; it is choosing to kill another human being, your own child, for convenience.

    The only way you can call it a medical procedure is that there is an MD involved. It is not necessary, it does not improve the health of the patient, one of them dies. In my experience medical procedures have some benefit to the person receiving them.

    Please share with me the benefit of an abortion? Hmmm?

    P.S. I am not now, nor do I plan to be involved in adultery. unless you could hook me up with Sandra Bullock
    Last edited by Leddyman; 11-09-2009 at 05:26 PM.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Perry View Post
    As of now, abortions are a legal medical procedure. If you don't like abortions I suggest you not get one. I know I won't be getting one anytime soon. A woman has the right to choose what she does with her body. A women can either choose to have a baby or she can choose to abort. It is not up to the right wing zealots to make that decision for her.
    If you think the commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill" should be strictly followed, you must really be up in arms about all the people killed in the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, both Americans, Iraqi's and Afghanistan's. Or, better yet the far hypocritical right should adhere to another of the Commandments "Thou Shalt not commit adultery".
    CHOOSE, being the key word. Most insurance doesn't cover elective surgeries. If they did we'd all look like movie stars.

  8. #38
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Perry View Post
    As of now, abortions are a legal medical procedure. If you don't like abortions I suggest you not get one. I know I won't be getting one anytime soon. A woman has the right to choose what she does with her body. A women can either choose to have a baby or she can choose to abort. It is not up to the right wing zealots to make that decision for her.
    If you think the commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill" should be strictly followed, you must really be up in arms about all the people killed in the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, both Americans, Iraqi's and Afghanistan's. Or, better yet the far hypocritical right should adhere to another of the Commandments "Thou Shalt not commit adultery".
    "A woman has the right to choose....."
    What if that baby is a woman?
    What if she "CHOOSES" to live??

    Too bad, huh!!
    Stan b & Elvis

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducknwork View Post
    First, I don't think adultery is exclusive to the right, although you will probably contest that it is.

    Second, nobody has made any religious references on this thread in opposition to abortion. (Correct me if I'm wrong) You are the first to bring up 'Thou shalt not kill'. Apparently, you assume that religion is the only reason that someone could possibly be opposed to abortion. I have asked more than once about these other foolish examples that our resident libs have given and whether or not they take away a human's right to life. I have received no responses. (Big surprise) So, perhaps Mr. Perry can shed some light on the subject. What other legal medical procedure takes away the right to life from a human being (not to mention an innocent one that cannot defend itself)?

    Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness regards,
    You are awfully silent on this Mr. Perry...

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leddyman View Post
    There is none so blind as one who will not see.

    The commandment you cite is found in Exodus 20:13. It was written in Hebrew just so you know.
    From the theological wordbook of the old testament:
    Thou shalt not MURDER.
    rāṣaḥ (murder) is a purely Hebrew term. It has no clear cognate in any of the contemporary tongues. The root occurs thirty-eight times in the ot, with fourteen occurrences in Num 35. The initial use of the root appears in the Ten Commandments (Ex 20:13). In that important text it appears in the simple Qal stem with the negative adverb, “You shall not murder,” being a more precise reading than the too-general KJV “thou shalt not kill.”
    Harris, R. Laird ; Harris, Robert Laird ; Archer, Gleason Leonard ; Waltke, Bruce K.: Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament. electronic ed. Chicago : Moody Press, 1999, c1980, S. 860

    Our troops are not murdering the enemy. Unless you think they are murderers and would like to weigh in on that.
    Unborn children are being murdered. Unless you think there is some kind of war against the unborn you want to tell us about.
    The word in Hebrew is murder. English sometimes gets in the way of our understanding of Biblical languages.

    Since you want to argue using the Bible, let's see what it says about unborn children shall we.

    Psalm 139: For You formed my inward parts;
    You covered me in my mother’s womb.
    14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
    The New King James Version.

    Isaiah 44: 24 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;

    Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

    Pretty clear what God thinks about the unborn. They are His, He formed them and He has a purpose for them. People murder them out of convenience. They have enough to worry about without having to live with the consequences of their own bad decisions. Easier to take the life out of the womb than raise a child. So anyway it is a choice; it is choosing to kill another human being, your own child, for convenience.

    The only way you can call it a medical procedure is that there is an MD involved. It is not necessary, it does not improve the health of the patient, one of them dies. In my experience medical procedures have some benefit to the person receiving them.

    Please share with me the benefit of an abortion? Hmmm?

    P.S. I am not now, nor do I plan to be involved in adultery. unless you could hook me up with Sandra Bullock
    I won't get into a Biblical argument with you, but I think those passages are all open to individual interpretation as to whether it is the human form or the soul that was being referred to. In my mind, it certainly is not proof that mortal life begins at conception. I think it refers to the eternal soul, that always has been, is, and always will be. Conception, birth, life, death are all just points along an eternal continuum.

    In Genesis, there is a reference to earthly life beginning when God "breaths life into the lungs of man". That could easily be interpreted as a newborn's first breath of life, that expands the lungs and begins life on earth.

    JMHO
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

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