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Thread: Obama ready to sign another stimulus bill

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    More of the same crap doesn't make it right!!
    Well stated. Would you jump off a bridge if your friends did, comes to mind. Lol
    "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still!" Les Brown

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  2. #12
    Senior Member T. Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    10% + unemployment has not been unheard of. Do you view it as a strictlely partisan issue? Why? It has occured before under both parties.
    It will occur again after recovery, whenever that might occur. If the ability to forecast economic upswings and downswigs were so easy, we might all be rich men. Freemarket economies are not so easy to predict. Otherwise we would not have an entire industry based on it. Don't let your political judgements sway your financial judgements. A lot of money has been made lately, mostley by those whose financial judgements are free of political interests. Que no?

    JD
    While unemployment has been over 10% before, there are several differences between the last time (early 80's) and today. Some are spelled out in this article http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33766513...ocal_business/ but other facits include that it was manufacturing and housing that brought us out of the 80's recession. This is not likely to happen this time as we have lost a lot of our manufacturing capabilities and the over supply of housing created during the housing bubble.

    The closest true example of anything similar to what we have today is the period after the great depression. And it was the war and the manufacturing of war materials that finally got us out of that downturn.

    I believe that a lot of wall streets gyrations comes from the fact that there is now a huge amount of money being generated and invested from "self directed" retirement programs such as 401K's. As this money mounts up at the brokerages, and demand is generated that it be invested and that profits be realized, there becomes a feeding frenzy and a bubble in all wall street prices not really supported by historic data.

  3. #13
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    Well stated. Would you jump off a bridge if your friends did, comes to mind. Lol
    Afraid you lost me there.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Perry View Post
    Where was all the outrage when GW Bush signed a stimilus bill in Jan 2008?

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush on Wednesday signed the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008, calling it a "booster shot" for the American economy.
    "The bill I'm signing today is large enough to have an impact, amounting to more than $152 billion this year, or about 1 percent of the GDP (gross domestic product)," the president said in the brief ceremony in the East Room of the White House.

    Obama's stimilus bill was for only $24 Billion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Perry View Post
    Bob, I did not see you comment on the Bush $124 Billion stimulus bill of 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    10% + unemployment has not been unheard of. Do you view it as a strictlely partisan issue? Why? It has occured before under both parties.
    It will occur again after recovery, whenever that might occur. If the ability to forecast economic upswings and downswigs were so easy, we might all be rich men. Freemarket economies are not so easy to predict. Otherwise we would not have an entire industry based on it. Don't let your political judgements sway your financial judgements. A lot of money has been made lately, mostley by those whose financial judgements are free of political interests. Que no?

    JD
    Is this the only way that you guys can defend all the spending? Keep telling us that we shouldn't say anything about it unless we complained when it happened in the past? What a joke. Obviously, you cannot truly defend your messiah, so you attempt to silence those who disagree with you by calling them hypocrites. Excessive spending wasn't right then and it isn't right now, especially given the circumstances we are in NOW.

  5. #15
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T. Mac View Post
    While unemployment has been over 10% before, there are several differences between the last time (early 80's) and today. Some are spelled out in this article http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33766513...ocal_business/ but other facits include that it was manufacturing and housing that brought us out of the 80's recession. This is not likely to happen this time as we have lost a lot of our manufacturing capabilities and the over supply of housing created during the housing bubble.

    The closest true example of anything similar to what we have today is the period after the great depression. And it was the war and the manufacturing of war materials that finally got us out of that downturn.

    I believe that a lot of wall streets gyrations comes from the fact that there is now a huge amount of money being generated and invested from "self directed" retirement programs such as 401K's. As this money mounts up at the brokerages, and demand is generated that it be invested and that profits be realized, there becomes a feeding frenzy and a bubble in all wall street prices not really supported by historic data.
    I agree that that are historical differences to economic downturns and recoveries. Growth will occur again. It is the nature of the beast. I can't predict where it will come from, I don't know. Maybe a weakening dollar and millions of consumers in counties like India, will give a boost to exports.
    I don't believe the sky is falling.

    JD
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  6. #16
    Senior Member K G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    I don't believe the sky is falling.

    JD
    Tell that to the 10+ % out of work....

    kg
    I keep my PM box full. Use email to contact me: rockytopkg@aol.com.

  7. #17
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K G View Post
    Tell that to the 10+ % out of work....

    kg
    The 10% number is misleading. Half that number were always out of work before the recession. Unemployment rises in a recession, and being a lagging indicator, is among the last to recover.
    The company I work for has started hiring new manager trainees in preparation for planned expansion. Sales gains are begining to show.

    I appreciate the dilemma of being out of work. Been there done that. When I was, I went to the mountains and cut firewood and dug and balled small pinion trees and sold them out of the back of my truck. Hard work, but it kept me going. Sometimes you have to accept a lesser job, but it still doesn't mean the sky is falling.

    JD
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  8. #18
    Senior Member K G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    The 10% number is misleading. JD
    Yeah....some economists say it's as high as 17%....

    Po-tay-to, Po-tah-to regards,

    kg
    I keep my PM box full. Use email to contact me: rockytopkg@aol.com.

  9. #19
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K G View Post
    Yeah....some economists say it's as high as 17%....

    Po-tay-to, Po-tah-to regards,

    kg
    Well then, half that number were probably unemployed pre-recession.
    Full employment under any administration or economy...the potato that never was.

    BTW kg, the unemployment rate that is generally accepted is from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, not from some economist.

    JD
    Last edited by JDogger; 11-10-2009 at 02:12 PM.
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by K G View Post
    Yeah....some economists say it's as high as 17%....

    Po-tay-to, Po-tah-to regards,

    kg
    Monthly Unemployment Rate Chart This chart shows the seasonally adjusted Unemployment Rate from January 2003 through December 2008. The rate was 5.8 percent in January 2003. It peaked at 6.3 percent in June 2003, and then it began an uneven but steady decline. By December 2003 it had dropped to 5.7 percent, below the level it was at in January of that year. The rate continued to decline till it reached a low of 4.4 percent in October 2006. It rose to 4.6 percent by January of 2007, but declined to 4.4 percent again by March 2007. The rate then underwent an uneven increase until it reached 7.2 percent in December of 2008. (The source is the Bureau of Labor Statistics.)
    BLS Series LNS 14,000,000 Seasonal Unemployment Rate 16 years and over YearJan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2003 5.8 5.9 5.9 6.0 6.1 6.3 6.2 6.1 6.1 6.0 5.8 5.7 2004 5.7 5.6 5.8 5.6 5.6 5.6 5.5 5.4 5.4 5.5 5.4 5.4 2005 5.2 5.4 5.2 5.1 5.1 5.0 5.0 4.9 5.1 5.0 5.0 4.8 2006 4.7 4.7 4.7 4.7 4.7 4.6 4.7 4.7 4.5 4.4 4.5 4.4 2007 4.6 4.5 4.4 4.5 4.5 4.6 4.74.74.74.84.75.02008 4.94.85.1 5.0 5.5 5.5 5.76.16.16.56.77.0



    Did anyone really expect the unemployment rate to drop drastically just because a new President came into office no matter who the President would have been? Stock market was still going down, businesses closing, banks folding, housing being foreclosed on, and so on and so on and so on.
    Last edited by Roger Perry; 11-10-2009 at 04:29 PM.

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