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Thread: Trying Terrorists in Civilian Courts

  1. #31
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by code3retrievers View Post
    How many here would like to serve on the jury? Exactly. How'd you like to be the judge? How'd you like to be a janitor in that courthouse? How'd you like to be a tourist in NY when the verdicts or sentencing is announced? How'd you like to be one of the hundreds of NY cops assigned to security every day? How'd you like to be a taxpayer helping to pay for this farce of a trial? Scratch that; you'll soon know. And where do you find an impartial jury? I'm sure there's a ton of ramifications that have not even been thought of yet, to go along with the arm's length list that's already been discussed.

    Talk about serious ramifications for you and your family. Also since the Obama administration wants to give these terrorists some of our constitutional rights, what is going to happen when they appeal due to the fact they did not have a speedy trial? Its been eight years for some. If the same judicial rules that applied to run-of-the-mill criminals were applied to KSM et al then they would all walk. But there's no way that any judge or jury will want to be known as the one who let KSM et al go free. There's no way these scum get a "fair" trial and there's no way they're found anything but guilty. And that's why this dog and pony show of a trial is a GD farce. We know they're guilty. The world knows they're guilty. They've admitted they're guilty. The military trials should have continued as planned. But Obama and Holder think they're going to cleanse us of Bush's supposed sins and all they're doing is opening up a can of worms and making us less safe in the process. Sleep tight, New Yorkers.


    Military tribunal is the only way to go.
    ...............
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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    A military tribunal, like the one that convicted the German saboteurs in Operation Pastorius is the way to go. These scumbags tried to destroy the American way of life and now they get to use our Constitutional protections to save themselves? I think all they deserve is a speedy military trial and a first class execution. In the civillian system, a tame judge is going to hear these cases and likely rule in favor of the terrs.
    Bob Gutermuth
    Canvasback Chesapeakes
    ROLL TIDE!

  3. #33
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    I don't believe this trial will be about the Bush administration. I don't think anyone wants to go there. (Administrations change you know, why set a precedent you may not want to live with later.)
    Can NYC and the feds pull off this prosecution? Sure.

    Don't you think that this has maybe been the plan to close Gitmo all along?

    Federal prosecutions for some, Military tribunals for others. An incremental decrease in detainees. Did you really think we were gonna just send 'em all home tomorrow? I see a strategy unveiling here. The closing of Gitmo as a slow, measured event. Not an all or nothing, to occur instantainously.
    No one ever wanted that.
    Someone mentioned AG Holder, judge shopping.
    This is not a FT.
    It is prosecution of those that attacked us. What possible political advantage coud be gained by not fully prosecuting the few remaining 9/11 conspirators?
    We prosecute the drug cartels that operate along our borders as criminals. Are they less terrorists?

    RK fears political activist judges. Many of the Fed. judges sitting today were appointed by GWB. Should we also fear their political activism?
    JD
    But even more sitting Federal Judges in NY were appointed by President Clinton.
    Yes....we should fear their activism.

    But you already knew that!!
    Stan b & Elvis

  4. #34
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    On the day Obama was elected I didn't suspect that I'd agree with many of his policies, but I presumed that he'd at least be competent, and that the people he placed in top positions would at least be competent. Read the following exchanges between Sen. Lindsey Graham and AG Eric Holder yesterday and tell me that you jaw doesn't hit the ground at Holder's ineptness:

    SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R-S.C): Can you give me a case in United States history where a enemy combatant caught on a battlefield was tried in civilian court?

    ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I don't know. I'd have to look at that. I think that, you know, the determination I've made --

    GRAHAM: We're making history here, Mr. Attorney General. I'll answer it for you. The answer is no.
    and then:

    GRAHAM: If bin Laden were caught tomorrow, would it be the position of this administration that he would be brought to justice?

    HOLDER: He would certainly be brought to justice, absolutely.

    GRAHAM: Where would you try him?

    HOLDER: Well, we'd go through our protocol. And we'd make the determination about where he should appropriately be tried. [...]

    GRAHAM: If we captured bin Laden tomorrow, would he be entitled to Miranda warnings at the moment of capture?

    HOLDER: Again I'm not -- that all depends. I mean, the notion that we --

    GRAHAM: Well, it does not depend. If you're going to prosecute anybody in civilian court, our law is clear that the moment custodial interrogation occurs the defendant, the criminal defendant, is entitled to a lawyer and to be informed of their right to remain silent.

    The big problem I have is that you're criminalizing the war, that if we caught bin Laden tomorrow, we'd have mixed theories and we couldn't turn him over -- to the CIA, the FBI or military intelligence -- for an interrogation on the battlefield, because now we're saying that he is subject to criminal court in the United States. And you're confusing the people fighting this war.
    For starters, Holder didn't know if there was any precedent for trying an enemy combatant captured abroad in criminal court. Really? You don't know that, Holder? You weren't the least bit curious as to whether your admin. was breaking new ground? And if you weren't aware of that, I can't believe you gave any serious thought to the future, down-the-road ramifications of your decision.

    The second exchange elicited the most "are you f'ing kidding me?!?" thoughts. Do you mean to tell the American people, AG Holder, that given your current plans to drag the murdering scum into federal criminal court, that you've given no thought, and have no game plan for the dispensation of future murdering scum that our people may capture going forward from here. Scary.
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  5. #35
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    But even more sitting Federal Judges in NY were appointed by President Clinton.
    Yes....we should fear their activism.

    But you already knew that!!
    So... you're a glass half empty guy... what can I say...I'm not. I think we can pull it off. Do you have so little faith in our system, the system that that we're sending people to die for to protect, that it is so imperfect that it makes a mockery of what they fight for? What American system do you wish for? They were bad to us, so... let's be bad to them...that'll show 'em, we'll give you tit for tat. I thought we sat on a higher ground. If we bring ourselves down to the level of the people who hate us and seek to destroy us, they win their battle. They've already won so much. lets not give them complete victory. Twenty years ago i could fly to Florida to visit my mother with no more than a ticket and a boarding pass, now i stand in line, take my shoes off, have my bathroom stuff in tiny bottles, cant even have a nail clipper in my pocket, but we're safe... gimme a break...we allowed the terrorists to win!

    JD
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  6. #36
    Senior Member WaterDogRem's Avatar
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    I'm actually watching a replay of the Justice Department Oversite hearing with Holder on Cspan right now and boy does Holder look stupid. He reminds me of someone that's guilty and trying to hide somethings. Makes me wonder if he's being forced to handle this situation in this manner? If so why? I think one of the more interesting questions is, how will this affect future similar cases?
    Last edited by WaterDogRem; 11-18-2009 at 11:21 PM.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    So... you're a glass half empty guy... what can I say...I'm not. I think we can pull it off. Do you have so little faith in our system, the system that that we're sending people to die for to protect, that it is so imperfect that it makes a mockery of what they fight for? What American system do you wish for?
    What American system do you wish them to be tried under? The criminal justice system that says that criminal suspects must be Mirandized? That's what our laws proscribe, but that's not what KSM and his homies will experience. The fact is that there is NO system in place for what Holder is about to do. Holder, the trial judge, and the appeal judges (is there any doubt that this will drag on for YEARS through the appeals process?) will be making sh!t up on the fly. That's the "system" you want to send people to die for to protect?
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  8. #38
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hew View Post
    What American system do you wish them to be tried under? The criminal justice system that says that criminal suspects must be Mirandized? That's what our laws proscribe, but that's not what KSM and his homies will experience. The fact is that there is NO system in place for what Holder is about to do. Holder, the trial judge, and the appeal judges (is there any doubt that this will drag on for YEARS through the appeals process?) will be making sh!t up on the fly. That's the "system" you want to send people to die for to protect?
    and the alternative is?

    This was a crime committed on American soil, against Americans. Do we just as 'better americans', just disappear them?

    JD
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  9. #39
    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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    Ain't it wonderful these terr cretins are going to beat the rap at the behest of Holder, Osama and the ACLU. The scumbags will likely sue for false imprisonment after they are acquitted.
    Bob Gutermuth
    Canvasback Chesapeakes
    ROLL TIDE!

  10. #40
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    and the alternative is?
    The military tribunals are tailor made for this and is how Bush and Congress were proceeding (in spite of the constant starts/stops and meddling of federal judges). Obama and Holder have already said that some of the Gitmo scum will be tried by the military tribunals. If that form of justice/trial is good enough for some of them, why isn't it good enough for all of them?

    Isn't one of the stated purposes of trying them in New York to demonstrate to the world our fair and judicial justice system? When you already have the Atty General and the President saying, in a nutshell, "Don't worry, they'll be found guilty and will fry for it" how just and fair do you think this whole farce will play with the rest of the world? Imagine if Achmadinnerjacket pronounced just before trying Americans in an Iranian kangaroo court that "the Americans will have a fair trial and then will be found guilty."
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

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