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Thread: USN Seals Debacle

  1. #31
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    Not defending GW, but didn't he know how to fly a jet?

    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    It should be no surprise he didn't serve as an infantryman in Vietnam!
    Did you?

    There were a lot of us, not with rich anybody's in our family, who chose to enlist during draft days to have a choice in the branch we wanted to serve. We all filled a need, as defined by the military.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    Not defending GW, but didn't he know how to fly a jet?



    Did you?

    There were a lot of us, not with rich anybody's in our family, who chose to enlist during draft days to have a choice in the branch we wanted to serve. We all filled a need, as defined by the military.
    I was a tad too young for Vietnam. Had to wait until Southern Watch/Desert Fox. Many did choose to enlist in a branch of their choice. That is not the same as getting a commission into an ANG unit with a waiting list....without having to wait. Why is it so hard to admit he used his Dad's power and influence to gain a privileged commission? He still had to have a degree and complete OBS or the Air Force equivalent, but was definitely "bumped" in front of a few hundred or thousand men like you and me.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  3. #33
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Assuming he did, and I am not granting he did, why is it necessary to denigrate his service?

    I haven't seen you post a similar string against clinton and if anything he deserves derision for his stance during that time.

    No need for an answer really, d and r.

    BTW, I don't really care in either case. But, as a defence against the attack on President George W. Bush and his service I will readily and gladly bring up clintons lack of service as well as his distain for the military.
    Last edited by subroc; 11-29-2009 at 09:34 PM.
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Bob Gutermuth's Avatar
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    He knew how to fly but didn't have enough hours in a particular type of jet.
    Bob Gutermuth
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  5. #35
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    Assuming he did, and I am not granting he did, why is it necessary to denigrate his service?

    I haven't seen you post a similar string against clinton and if anything he deserves derision for his stance during that time.

    No need for an answer really, d and r.

    BTW, I don't really care in either case. But, as a defence against the attack on President George W. Bush and his service I will readily and gladly bring up clintons lack of service as well as his distain for the military.
    Clinton did not serve. He had one deferrment for a Rhodes Scholarship. Call in denigrating if you want, I merely pointed out facts that have NOT been disputed by anyone on this list or George Bush himself.

    Many did choose to enlist in a branch of their choice. That is not the same as getting a commission into an ANG unit with a waiting list....without having to wait. Why is it so hard to admit he used his Dad's power and influence to gain a privileged commission? He still had to have a degree and complete OBS or the Air Force equivalent, but was definitely "bumped" in front of a few hundred or thousand men like you and me.

    Still haven't heard anyone dispute the above. Or his failing to report for a physical and being disqualified for flight duty, without any punitive action. Just the facts. Make your own conclusion. No denigration here, no attacks, just facts.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  6. #36
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Dave

    Tell me what you think. These questions won't be aswered. Ever. So, to your points, he only served 5.5 years but received an honorable discharge. Those facts together to me indicate an early out of some kind. What do they indicate to you? You use the word suspicious. What about it is suspicious? In the worst case scenario, what is the man "guilty" of? In your "I hate President George W. Bush" world, what is the indictment?
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Clinton did not serve. He had one deferrment for a Rhodes Scholarship. Call in denigrating if you want, I merely pointed out facts that have NOT been disputed by anyone on this list or George Bush himself.

    ..............

    Just the facts. Make your own conclusion. No denigration here, no attacks, just facts.
    Your "facts" re: Clinton's avoidance of military service are wrong. Not correct. Not facts. Moreover, your one sentence glossing over of Clinton's machinations, string pulling by well-connected friends and outright lies and deception to avoid service (complete with your nonfactual "facts"), while denigrating Bush's service as an honorably discharged ANG pilot makes your statement that you go after all sides equally rather laughable.
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  8. #38
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hew View Post
    Your "facts" re: Clinton's avoidance of military service are wrong. Not correct. Not facts. Moreover, your one sentence glossing over of Clinton's machinations, string pulling by well-connected friends and outright lies and deception to avoid service (complete with your nonfactual "facts"), while denigrating Bush's service as an honorably discharged ANG pilot makes your statement that you go after all sides equally rather laughable.
    Those are the facts. You can check them anywhere. I haven't cited sources because they were in the public domain, and were never disputed.

    As a Cheney boy, I'm surprised to hear you attack Clinton on a Rhodes scholarship deferrment (or whatever the official designation was). Clinton 1, Cheney 7.

    So here it goes Hew....Clinton used power and influence (whatever he may have had at that age with no rich daddy) to avoid service in Vietnam. There, I admitted it. NOt so hard to admit the truth. Lets hear you give it a try now!? Guys like the veterans on this list went to war, while guys like Bush (and Clinton) took a free pass because of power and influence! Its not hard. Lets see if you can admit a truth about your Messiah.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  9. #39
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Those are the facts. You can check them anywhere. I haven't cited sources because they were in the public domain, and were never disputed.

    As a Cheney boy, I'm surprised to hear you attack Clinton on a Rhodes scholarship deferrment (or whatever the official designation was). Clinton 1, Cheney 7.
    Again, they're not the facts. Clinton had come home from Oxford to face his induction. Instead, with help from influential friends, he was able to secure a spot at the University of Arkansas ROTC program once he had completed basic training. He was granted a reservist deferrment while awaiting his basic training and enrollment into ROTC. Of course, he had no intention of doing so (as he later wrote the Colonel at Arkansas, he "loathed" the United States military), and as soon as he received his reservist deferrment he went back to Oxford.

    But feel free to contend that Bush's service as an ANG pilot and Clinton's avoidance of service are the same.
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  10. #40
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hew View Post
    Again, they're not the facts. Clinton had come home from Oxford to face his induction. Instead, with help from influential friends, he was able to secure a spot at the University of Arkansas ROTC program once he had completed basic training. He was granted a reservist deferrment while awaiting his basic training and enrollment into ROTC. Of course, he had no intention of doing so (as he later wrote the Colonel at Arkansas, he "loathed" the United States military), and as soon as he received his reservist deferrment he went back to Oxford.

    But feel free to contend that Bush's service as an ANG pilot and Clinton's avoidance of service are the same.
    Ok Hew, again, watch how EASY this is:

    Clinton and Bush acted legally, but less than honorably in avoidance of his service, both using power and influence to avoid going to war.

    There, I have no problem admitting that.

    For a third time, can you admit the same?? Or are you going to cling to your Messiah?
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

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