The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 6789 LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 81

Thread: o-bow-ma

  1. #71
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, La.
    Posts
    10,663

    Default

    Here ya go...


    The constitution states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Both the free exercise clause and the establishment clause place restrictions on the government concerning laws they pass or interfering with religion. No restrictions are placed on religions except perhaps that a religious denomination cannot become the state religion.

    ...and that's why we have a seperation. If no denomination can become the state religion than all are seperated from the state!
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  2. #72
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Yardley, PA
    Posts
    6,639

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eildydar View Post
    theres no such thing as separation of church and state in the constitution. If you can find it please let me know and if you cite Thomas Jefferson please cite the whole thing so I don't have to go find the whole quote to prove you wrong...
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" [First Amendment, US Constitution]

    Establishment of religion has been generally interpreted to mean anything evidencing preference of one religion over another or of religion over irreligion. See, for example, Souter writing for the majority in Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet, 1993, "government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion."

    With respect to Jefferson, I assume you are referencing the Danbury Baptist letter from 1801 where Jefferson wrote:

    "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties." (See http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html)

    Initially, this prohibition applied only to the Federal Government. However, under the 14th amendment equal protection clause this restriction was extended to state and local governments as well. For many years, the law was violated on a regular basis in schools throughout the country. In many, it was simply ignored, while in others it was addressed using the illusion of "non-sectarian" prayer. This was the situation in New York State when the Supreme Court heard Engel v. Vitale in 1962 and ruled with only one dissenting vote that official prayer in school constituted implicit endorsement of religion and thereby was a violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment of the Constitution.

  3. #73
    Senior Member Leddyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Cochran, georgia
    Posts
    2,530

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    This is why seperation of chruch from state is so important to our freedom. What you believe to be FACT is your right. However, most think it is Belief and not Fact.

    Oh, and John Lennon was no idiot. Much of what he stood for proved to be insightful as history has shown. He was way ahead of his time.

    Lets don't forget that organized religions have cause more deaths and human misery than any other single factor in the history of mankind.
    Dude! Have you SEEN Yoko Onno? C'mon.
    Terry Moseley
    Bad Motor Scooter SH

    He that tooteth not his own horn...The same shall not be tooted.

    There could be 5 or 6 ninjas in this room right now.

  4. #74
    Senior Member Leddyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Cochran, georgia
    Posts
    2,530

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    You are obviously free to believe as you wish. The facts, if any, are unknowable in any scientific sense. That is the essence of faith.

    Personally, I am not a deist -- I fall closer to what RK calls secular progressive. However, I will also admit that the existence or non-existence of a god has never been a very important question in my mind. I am continuously in awe of the miracle of life. I believe that if a god exists -- and that is as much a possibility as that one does not -- I cannot believe in a god that would create such a diversity of wonder, yet base salvation on how people elected to praise him. I would argue that an entity that would create humanity for the sole purpose of being praised is no god at all, but an adolescent nightmare. But, of course, that is just my belief.

    And while I am not a deist, I am definitely influenced by the beliefs of my Unitarian ancestors who viewed Jesus as an extraordinary man, but definitely a man, not a god. While Unitarians may have lost the vote at Nicea, they were a significant part of the early Christian world. Among Unitarian-Universalists, there has been a common quip saying the Unitarians believe that mankind is too good to be damned by God, while Universalists believe that God is too good to damn them.

    There are many "gospels" going back thousands of years. You are correct that they cannot al be true. However, they share a number of common themes among them. I tend to believe that the "truth" lies in the reverence of life and their shared emphasis on the importance of celebrating life and living in a charitable and compassionate manner. I find little importance in their institutional characteristics (this church or that, this book or that) or in the details of how they worship.
    The facts are every bit as knowable in a scientific sense as the religion that espouses evolution.
    I would like to point out that every assertion I have made on this thread is a statement of verifiable fact. At no time have I tried to use Scripture to prove a point as I am aware that using the Bible to prove the validity of the Bible is circular reasoning. The historical and factual evidence I have offered is verifiable and I cited my sources. You are aware that none of the history which you accept as fact from your high school history classes is as well documented as the claims of the New testament. Bro. that is science. Ask a history teacher or an archeologist.

    We do not identify things based on what they have in common. It is their essential differences that make them what they are. A saint and a murderer are exactly the same by your standard of religion, they both have a head, two legs, and two eyes so they are the same. We know that a saint and a murderer are not the same...barring the obvious NFL joke in there somewhere. It is the central difference that is important.
    Religion is the same way. Because they all hold some standard of goodness; that does not make them the same. Because they attempt to please God they are not the same. A lot of Aztecs got their hearts cut out on an altar...that is not the same. It is the central difference that defines their identity. If you are ever accused of a crime you will be glad that you are identified by your essential difference I.E. unique fingerprints rather than your commonalities with the criminal which may be numerous.

    I respect the fact that you do not believe what I believe. You have the honesty to stand up and say "I don't believe that". My problem is with the President who goes on TV and claims to be something that he isn't in order to garner votes. It is pure religious pandering. Words mean something. The name Christian means that you believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If you don't believe it fine, just don't lie and say you do Mr. President.
    Last edited by Leddyman; 12-06-2009 at 07:28 AM.
    Terry Moseley
    Bad Motor Scooter SH

    He that tooteth not his own horn...The same shall not be tooted.

    There could be 5 or 6 ninjas in this room right now.

  5. #75
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,245

    Default

    thank you for providing the exact quotes so that it can be shown that government is supposed to be neutral from religion not banning one or another, which ever is most politically correct and politically expedient to do.

  6. #76
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Yardley, PA
    Posts
    6,639

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eildydar View Post
    thank you for providing the exact quotes so that it can be shown that government is supposed to be neutral from religion not banning one or another, which ever is most politically correct and politically expedient to do.
    However, neutrality demands that the trappings of government not be used in a manner that promotes any religion over another or religion in general over irreligion. This leaves no room for school prayer, little wiggle room for an office of "faith based" programs, and no reason at all for allowing religious beliefs to censor scientific teaching or to be treated as if they are themselves some form of science.

  7. #77
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    63

    Default

    Obama is a Liar and is putting America in danger and making us look like a bunch of sissy's . He is ANTI AMERICAN plain and simple . Everybody wanted to talk about Bush ha ha he might not have had good grammar but he did have a pair and didn't kiss ever world leaders butt . We need to impeach this idiot He thinks he tells us what to do not us tell him what to do .

  8. #78
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Western Pa
    Posts
    6,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Pearrow View Post
    Obama is a Liar and is putting America in danger and making us look like a bunch of sissy's . He is ANTI AMERICAN plain and simple . Everybody wanted to talk about Bush ha ha he might not have had good grammar but he did have a pair and didn't kiss ever world leaders butt . We need to impeach this idiot He thinks he tells us what to do not us tell him what to do .
    Tell us what you really think!

    A black kid who grows up and figures out how to get elected President of the United States may be a lot of things....but "idiot" ain't one of 'em! If YOU were sitting in the whitehouse, and he was calling you un-American on a retriever forum, I might believe you then.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  9. #79
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Yardley, PA
    Posts
    6,639

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Pearrow View Post
    Obama is a Liar and is putting America in danger and making us look like a bunch of sissy's . He is ANTI AMERICAN plain and simple . Everybody wanted to talk about Bush ha ha he might not have had good grammar but he did have a pair and didn't kiss ever world leaders butt . We need to impeach this idiot He thinks he tells us what to do not us tell him what to do .
    I would be prepared to concede that all salesmen, including all politicians, are liars. However, there are clear gradations among them. It's hard to reply to your particular assertion without some detail. Personally, my impression is that one of Obama's problems may be that he is too honest and that this complicates his message since he tries so hard to treat us like thinking adults. This is, of course, in marked contrast to anything seen on Fox News, which is much more popular than the President. I agree that Bush had a set of cojones (as did Hitler, BTW). Unfortunately, he seemed so intent on showing them to everyone that he alienated the world and left us weaker as an economic and moral world leader than we were when he took office.

  10. #80
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    2,789

    Default

    I would be prepared to concede that all salesmen, including all politicians
    I can prove you wrong on that Jeff
    There are straight shooters in every walk of life ,,,even lawyers and politicians,,,, rare indeed but I know a couple of extremely honest sales people,,,haven met a honest politician or lawyer yet though

    Pete

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •