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Thread: Drinking Age?

  1. #11
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    #1---What does signing up for the Selective Service have to do with maturity?
    #2---What percentage of 18 year olds are marching into battle?

    Sorry DNF, that is an old hippy argument (rationalization).

    You think an 18 year old at a home should be able to drink because some OTHER 18 year old is in the military>
    Convoluted reasoning at best!!

    stan b
    I think I said I like the 21 limit....but in general, if we expect boys of a certain age to sign up and possibly serve, we're applying a certain level of responsibility across the board. That same generalization should apply to drinking also.

    I'm flattered you said I was using a "hippy argument". When I was 18-21, I was the biggest Ronald Reagan fan, conservative, crew-cut high and tight kill 'em all gung-go type you've ever seen, who was either in school, working as a lineman at the airport, or downing some longnecks with my friends after work. Anything but "hippie". My favorite song was Merle Haggards 'okie from muskogee'.

    People are going to be responsible or not regardless of a drinking age law. Draw the line wherever you want. I don't know of ANYONE who wanted to drink, but waited until their 21st birthday...and that's a LOT of people!
    Last edited by dnf777; 12-13-2009 at 12:17 PM.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    I think I said I like the 21 limit....but in general, if we expect boys of a certain age to sign up and possibly serve, we're applying a certain level of responsibility across the board. That same generalization should apply to drinking also.

    I'm flattered you said I was using a "hippy argument". When I was 18-21, I was the biggest Ronald Reagan fan, conservative, crew-cut high and tight kill 'em all gung-go type you've ever seen, who was either in school, working as a lineman at the airport, or downing some longnecks with my friends after work. Anything but "hippie". My favorite song was Merle Haggards 'okie from muskogee'.

    People are going to be responsible or not regardless of a drinking age law. Draw the line wherever you want. I don't know of ANYONE who wanted to drink, but waited until their 21st birthday...and that's a LOT of people!
    A law to not drink will not keep those that want to drink from doing so.

    A law to make someone have car insurance will not make someone have car insurance if they don't want to.

    A law to make someone have health insurance will not make someone have health insurance if they don't want to.

    See the similarities here?????

    WRL

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    Just a side point
    God gave Adam anything he needed ,,he could do anything his heart felt to do ,,,except 1 thing,,,, well thats human nature ,,we want to try the 1 thing which is forbidden,,,and the rest is history. Adam didint have a peer group,,,so I guess its much harder if everybody around you is telling you to try it,,, rather than just 1 snake in the grass

    Pete

  4. #14
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRL View Post
    A law to not drink will not keep those that want to drink from doing so.

    A law to make someone have car insurance will not make someone have car insurance if they don't want to.

    A law to make someone have health insurance will not make someone have health insurance if they don't want to.

    See the similarities here?????

    WRL
    Couldn't agree more. That was my point when I said draw the line wherever you want--people are going to drink when they want to. I lived in Beauregard Parish, La, where it was a dry Parish. Don't know how the roadsides got littered with all those beer cans?
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Couldn't agree more. That was my point when I said draw the line wherever you want--people are going to drink when they want to. I lived in Beauregard Parish, La, where it was a dry Parish. Don't know how the roadsides got littered with all those beer cans?
    DUH! They grew from beer can seeds that the DOT planted...

  6. #16
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    Just a question... I know that at one point the age of majority was 21, was this lowered to 18 during dubbya dubbya deuce?

  7. #17
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fowlfeller1100 View Post
    Just a question... I know that at one point the age of majority was 21, was this lowered to 18 during dubbya dubbya deuce?
    The first impetus for lowering the voting age from 21 to 18 began in WWII after the draft age was reduced from 20 to 18. There were numerous such proposals over the years, but they began to reach a head in the late 60's in conection with the growth in the number of young men being drafted and sent to war. Contrary to RK's assertions, that was a major force as many states began passing laws to reduce the drinking age (see, for example, http://www.why21.org/history/).

    In 1970, Congress voted to reduce the voting age to 18 as well. However, the Supreme Court ruled that to be illegal. In reaction, in the spring of 1971, the 26th amendment was adopted by Congress and then ratified by the requisite number of states in just a few months, becoming law in July 1970. In response almost all remaining states reduced the drinking age as well. However, the number of alcohol related traffic accidents began to rise quickly. Some studies also showed an increase in the number of suicides of persons aged 18-20 increasing as well. In reaction the Federal Highway administration linked Federal support for roads to adoption of age 21 as the limit for drinking and almost every state complied quickly. The US remains one of the only countries in the world that restricts drinking for persons aged 18 and older.

  8. #18
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    The first impetus for lowering the voting age from 21 to 18 began in WWII after the draft age was reduced from 20 to 18. There were numerous such proposals over the years, but they began to reach a head in the late 60's in conection with the growth in the number of young men being drafted and sent to war. Contrary to RK's assertions, that was a major force as many states began passing laws to reduce the drinking age (see, for example, http://www.why21.org/history/).

    In 1970, Congress voted to reduce the voting age to 18 as well. However, the Supreme Court ruled that to be illegal. In reaction, in the spring of 1971, the 26th amendment was adopted by Congress and then ratified by the requisite number of states in just a few months, becoming law in July 1970. In response almost all remaining states reduced the drinking age as well. However, the number of alcohol related traffic accidents began to rise quickly. Some studies also showed an increase in the number of suicides of persons aged 18-20 increasing as well. In reaction the Federal Highway administration linked Federal support for roads to adoption of age 21 as the limit for drinking and almost every state complied quickly. The US remains one of the only countries in the world that restricts drinking for persons aged 18 and older.
    Contrary to your patronizing "assertion," there is NO evidence in that goofy blog or in any legal action that ties the drinking age to enlistment age.
    You argument is that if 10 kids go in the military, the other 990 out of 1,000 should get to drink is foolish.

    BTW, here is a quote from your dream site.
    The results were conclusive and tragic:

    "The results of this “natural experiment” were fairly immediate and hard to miss: The decrease in the drinking age brought about an increase in alcohol traffic fatalities and injuries. So much so that, by 1983, 16 states voluntarily raised their drinking age back to 21—a move that brought about an immediate decrease in drinking and driving traffic fatalities incidents."

    My pleasure to point out your folley, wonder if any of your "assertions" are based on anything but.......


    stan b
    Stan b & Elvis

  9. #19
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Contrary to your patronizing "assertion," there is NO evidence in that goofy blog or in any legal action that ties the drinking age to enlistment age.
    You argument is that if 10 kids go in the military, the other 990 out of 1,000 should get to drink is foolish.

    BTW, here is a quote from your dream site.
    The results were conclusive and tragic:

    "The results of this “natural experiment” were fairly immediate and hard to miss: The decrease in the drinking age brought about an increase in alcohol traffic fatalities and injuries. So much so that, by 1983, 16 states voluntarily raised their drinking age back to 21—a move that brought about an immediate decrease in drinking and driving traffic fatalities incidents."

    My pleasure to point out your folley, wonder if any of your "assertions" are based on anything but.......


    stan b
    What's your thought? I understand your point about one 18 year old going to war doesn't make another at home responsible to drink. I was referring to societal norms that we establish, in a broader sense. 18 year olds can fight and die, sign contracts, get married, vote and buy and shoot guns, consent or refuse to life altering medical procedures......but not have a beer?

    In medicine, we use outcome-based decision models. No matter what shoulda, coulda, makes more sense.....its what produces the desired OUTCOME at the end of the day, is what's done. If raising the drinking age to 21 indeed resulted in a dramatic reduction in highway fatalities, then it's really hard to argue against it.

    Fellow conservative multi-millionaire CEO of Molson-Miller (parent of Coors apparently?) Pete Coors has argued loudly for years that the age should be lowered back to 18. Of course, he would stand to profit immensely from this, personally. He stated that kids will drink anyway, so why should the gov't criminalize them? Of course, some CEOs of beer companies will drink anyway also and get DUIs that they plead down to lesser charges and then run for the senate
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  10. #20
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    What's your thought? I understand your point about one 18 year old going to war doesn't make another at home responsible to drink. I was referring to societal norms that we establish, in a broader sense. 18 year olds can fight and die, sign contracts, get married, vote and buy and shoot guns, consent or refuse to life altering medical procedures......but not have a beer?

    In medicine, we use outcome-based decision models. No matter what shoulda, coulda, makes more sense.....its what produces the desired OUTCOME at the end of the day, is what's done. If raising the drinking age to 21 indeed resulted in a dramatic reduction in highway fatalities, then it's really hard to argue against it.

    Fellow conservative multi-millionaire CEO of Molson-Miller (parent of Coors apparently?) Pete Coors has argued loudly for years that the age should be lowered back to 18. Of course, he would stand to profit immensely from this, personally. He stated that kids will drink anyway, so why should the gov't criminalize them? Of course, some CEOs of beer companies will drink anyway also and get DUIs that they plead down to lesser charges and then run for the senate
    In my opinion, which is all it is, 18 for beer, 21 for liquor.

    1st DUI=2 years in jail.
    2nd DUI=Execution.

    Watch how quick it gets cleaned up.
    Stan b & Elvis

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