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Thread: The beginning of the end....

  1. #31
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    I'll flat-our say it, Obama is a liar!

    Here is his quote from the article....

    Obama repeated his demand for action, telling ABC News "the federal government will go bankrupt" if the health care bill fails. He said Medicare and Medicaid are on an "unsustainable" path if no action is taken.

    end quote

    Obama is going to use the failure of his Health Care Bill as a diversion to his over-spending. It is all the wasteful spending that Obama is and has signed off on that will cause our bankruptcy! Yes, Pres. Bush over-spent but Obama's spending makes Bush look like Scrooge Jr.

    Awe...but...Mr. Bootay...have you forgotten that this was what we heard from the Messiah just a short time ago???




    http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=cfu1_Scgyow



    Furthermore...

    CAN ANYONE TELL ME JUST WHAT THE HAYEL IS THE BILL WE ARE ARGUING OVER????

    UB
    When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

  2. #32
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bill View Post
    Awe...but...Mr. Bootay...have you forgotten that this was what we heard from the Messiah just a short time ago???




    http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=cfu1_Scgyow



    Furthermore...

    CAN ANYONE TELL ME JUST WHAT THE HAYEL IS THE BILL WE ARE ARGUING OVER????

    UB

    No sir, we can't.
    You see Senator Reid has it in hiding.
    Has anyone heard of the "Managers Bill??"


    I'm sure Yardley has read it though!!
    Stan b & Elvis

  3. #33
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post




    I'm sure Yardley has read it though!!


    It's doubtful he will ever read it, but that will not deter him from regaling us with its' contents, via beaucoup superfluous jargon. It will be typical phoney sycophantic GDG, as only the Pennsylvania leftists are want to do. Even some of their so-called independants frequently jump into that gob of garbage, and later complain we are bigoted by calling them liberal. Hey! That's a compliment for what you socialists are backing.

    Does it ever occur to you libs how little respect you display for this nation we conservatives revere as America? Why are you so willing to have your freedoms legislated away? How long have you despised our Constitution, and have actively worked for the downfall of this country? How socialistic will we need to become, before you 'feel' that is enough?

    UB
    When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    From the NY Times today:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/21/he..._r=1&th&emc=th
    Deep in Health Bill, Very Specific Beneficiaries

    Some highlights:

    Buried in the deal-clinching health care package that Senate Democrats unveiled over the weekend is an inconspicuous proposal expanding Medicare to cover certain victims of “environmental health hazards.”

    The intended beneficiaries are identified in a cryptic, mysterious way: individuals exposed to environmental health hazards recognized as a public health emergency in a declaration issued by the federal government on June 17.

    And who might those individuals be? It turns out they are people exposed to asbestos from a vermiculite mine in Libby, Mont.

    For a decade, Senator Max Baucus, Democrat of Montana, has been trying to get the government to help them. He is in a position to deliver now because he is chairman of the Finance Committee and a principal author of the health care bill.
    “Every senator uses whatever leverage they have to help their states,” Mr. Axelrod said on the CNN program “State of the Union.” “That’s the way it has been. That’s the way it will always be.”
    So much for change we can believe in.

    “This process is not legislation,” said Senator Tom Coburn, Republican of Oklahoma, referring to a variety of special-interest provisions. “This process is corruption. It’s a shame the only way we can come to a consensus in this country is to buy votes.”
    Senator Ben Nelson, Democrat of Nebraska, was the critical final Democrat to endorse the bill. He obtained tighter restrictions on insurance coverage of abortion, and additional Medicaid money and other benefits for his state.
    Another provision would give $100 million to an unnamed “health care facility” affiliated with an academic health center at a public research university in a state where there is only one public medical and dental school.
    The Senate health bill, like one passed by the House last month, would impose tough new restrictions on referrals of Medicare patients by doctors to hospitals in which the doctors have financial interests. The package assembled by Mr. Reid would provide exemptions to a small number of such hospitals, including one in Nebraska.
    “Senator Nelson has always been a friend to our industry,” she said. “But doctor-owned hospitals in other states were not so fortunate. They would not meet the Aug. 1 deadline.”
    Another item in Mr. Reid’s package specifies the data that Medicare officials should use in adjusting payments to hospitals to reflect local wage levels. The officials can use certain new data only if it produces a higher index and therefore higher Medicare payments for these hospitals.
    What good is an index if you only use it when it dictates higher prices?

    Mr. Reid’s proposal also provides additional money to several states to help pay for the expansion of Medicaid to cover many childless adults and parents who did not previously qualify.

    Senate Democrats said Saturday that the cost would probably be less than $100 million over 10 years. But the Congressional Budget Office said Sunday that the cost of this provision, benefiting Massachusetts, Nebraska and Vermont, “is approximately $1.2 billion over the 2010-2019 period.” Massachusetts and Vermont have been leaders in providing health insurance to their residents.
    (Already a disagreement between Mr. Reid's statements and CBO estimate).

    Nebraska, with help from Mr. Nelson, won a particularly generous arrangement under which the federal government would indefinitely pay the full cost of covering certain low-income people added to the Medicaid rolls under the bill.
    Republicans derided this provision as the “Cornhusker kickback.” And they said it was typical of the favors Democrats had given to Mr. Nelson and a handful of other senators.

    “You’ve got to compliment Ben Nelson for playing ‘The Price is Right,’ ” said Senator Richard M. Burr, Republican of North Carolina. “He negotiated a Medicaid agreement for Nebraska that puts the federal government on the hook forever. Not for six years, not for 10 years. This isn’t the Louisiana Purchase; this is the Nebraska windfall.”
    What a hodge-podge this bill has turned out to be.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Steve Amrein's Avatar
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    Isnt Blogo being prosecuted for similar bribery tactics ?
    "Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and in Hell, where they already have it" Ronald Reagan

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by twall View Post
    Here is the crux of the problem. Cost of healthcare. This bill does not address all the costs that make up healthcare. It will actually drive up costs but increasing the number of insured. Then, decrease costs by restricting coverage. Look at the recent mamogram and Pap test recommendations. This will reduced survival rates but, reduce costs too. Nothing is being done to address tort reform, the cost of new drug development, etc.

    The models being used, British, Canadien, etc. do not provide better healthcare than the US system. They might spend less money overall but, they have reduced life expectancies.

    I work for in the urgent care division of a private healthcare company. The patients that we treat who seek the best care for the least cost are the ones with the highest co-pays/deductables. They come in when they truly need to be treated and cannot get in to their PCP. They do not request unneccesary procedures and exams. And, they only want the medications they truly need.


    This whole mess is not about "fixing" healthcare or providing healthcare to everyone. It is about political paybacks and buying future votes with handouts!

    Tom
    I just had to check this life expectancy claim out, there were plenty of sources I could have chosen but I thought you my give the CIA more credence than something from the U.N. Please read the list than ask yourself why are you ranked 50th in order of life expectancy...?

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2102rank.html
    power without lumber, raciness without weediness

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  7. #37
    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blind ambition View Post
    I just had to check this life expectancy claim out, there were plenty of sources I could have chosen but I thought you my give the CIA more credence than something from the U.N. Please read the list than ask yourself why are you ranked 50th in order of life expectancy...?

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2102rank.html
    Can you find a list of the average weight per citizen. I suspect were doing a lot worse then number 50 in that category, and that could have a lot more to do with where we rank in life expectancy then quality of health care.


    Now where did I put those chicken wings

  8. #38
    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
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    According to Forbes we rank 9th in the world, and I didn't see any of the fatter countries ranked above us in life expectancy.

    http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/07/wor...orldfat_2.html
    Last edited by Hoosier; 12-21-2009 at 04:18 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    Can you find a list of the average weight per citizen. I suspect were doing a lot worse then number 50 in that category, and that could have a lot more to do with where we rank in life expectancy then quality of health care.


    Now where did I put those chicken wings
    These are very interesting points you raise and a scintillating topic for discussion especially as we count down to the Christmas Holidays but they don't address the fallacy of Twall's statement viz British and Canadian life expectancy being less than those in the U.S.A.

    If you can find fault with the CIA data get back to me, eh
    power without lumber, raciness without weediness

    A big man never looks down on others.... instead, he is someone to look up to.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blind ambition View Post
    These are very interesting points you raise and a scintillating topic for discussion especially as we count down to the Christmas Holidays but they don't address the fallacy of Twall's statement viz British and Canadian life expectancy being less than those in the U.S.A.

    If you can find fault with the CIA data get back to me, eh
    I think Twall's statement was probably wrong. I was just attempting an explanation for why we are 50th in life expectancy, and to make a point that it's due to unhealthy lifestyle.

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