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Thread: One of the more interesting polls I've seen

  1. #21
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvalab View Post
    Until we are ready for a single-payer plan--perhaps one in which the companies that are now insurance companies are payed fairly and well to be administration companies--then these are the debates and dilemmas we're going to be faced with, and there is simply no resolving them. There might be mitigation of damage (which I have no faith this bill will do, but anyway), but there are no solutions.

    When will we be ready? I think (off-hand) we need three things: first, for people to accept the idea that sometimes, in order to best take care of ourselves, we also need to take care of others (EVERYONE in the insurance pool--hold your nose and 1,2,3 jump); and second, for people to have a government that they trust to pass SIMPLE legislation that hands over the reigns of control elsewhere; and third, a trustworthy corporate "elsewhere."

    We're not ready. But I sure wish there were some politicians bold enough to make the argument.

    Single-payer national insurance is one of the few lefty ideals I have left over in my middle age, and the more arguments I hear, the more I'm convinced it's the way to go...

    Either that, or screw all regulation entirely, and every man, woman, and child for himself--and barter and trade if necessary. If you're going to scream free market--free the market. I'm sure everyone would know what things cost, and things would cost a hell of a lot less, and payment arrangements if necessary would be made that satisfied both private parties. I don't think we're ready for that, either--it will take a lot more than rhetoric to put the insurance genie back in the bottle.
    After eight years working in the public sector and 30 years working in the private sector, I trust no one to serve any interest but their own in the absence of competition. In the absence of competition, all organiations become inbred and arrogant.

  2. #22
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    After eight years working in the public sector and 30 years working in the private sector, I trust no one to serve any interest but their own in the absence of competition. In the absence of competition, all organiations become inbred and arrogant.
    I don't think a single-payer system precludes competition.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvalab View Post
    I don't think a single-payer system precludes competition.
    Single-payer certainly sounds like just one to me. Having only one payer gives the payer complete control over providers and consumers. The result is likely to be arbitrary exclusions of some providers (or dictated reimbursement rates) and bad service for consumers.

  4. #24
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    In all the single-payer (single pool of money) proposals I've ever been familiar with, there were possibilities for competition by fund administrators (who can do it most effectively, who can do it most efficiently, who can do it most economically), competition by doctors (who can provide care most effectively, efficiently, economically), drug companies (same), equipment companies (same), and on and on.

    Right now, the competition essentially about about who can make the most money for the least service--and without going to either a system that emphasizes competition in the areas that actually lead to better health (to my mind, single payer is a viable proposition), or going to a free-market system where layers of government and corporate greed codified in bueracracy and legislation are eliminated, I don't see what competition will get us.
    --Greta Ode
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  5. #25
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Single-payer certainly sounds like just one to me. Having only one payer gives the payer complete control over providers and consumers. The result is likely to be arbitrary exclusions of some providers (or dictated reimbursement rates) and bad service for consumers.
    Maybe not competition per se, but the net effect may be even worse for the consumer. Many physicians may go ahead and retire, those that can. Less bright college students will choose to enter medicine, and we will experience a brain-drain, like other wounded professions have. Lastly, and probably least, mid-career physicians may leave medicine for other pursuits. While I don't foresee this happening in significant numbers, there is a niche-industry that has sprung up recently that is dedicated in helping physicians find second careers. I think the mere existence of such industries is telling of a dismal future for American medicine if such trends continue.

    So while single-payer may not provide competition, it may result in the physician pool drying up due to attrition.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  6. #26
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Maybe not competition per se, but the net effect may be even worse for the consumer. Many physicians may go ahead and retire, those that can. Less bright college students will choose to enter medicine, and we will experience a brain-drain, like other wounded professions have. Lastly, and probably least, mid-career physicians may leave medicine for other pursuits. While I don't foresee this happening in significant numbers, there is a niche-industry that has sprung up recently that is dedicated in helping physicians find second careers. I think the mere existence of such industries is telling of a dismal future for American medicine if such trends continue.

    So while single-payer may not provide competition, it may result in the physician pool drying up due to attrition.
    dnf777,

    What prompted your entrance into the practice of medicine? What keeps you there? Just curious.

    JD
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  7. #27
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    dnf777,

    What prompted your entrance into the practice of medicine? What keeps you there? Just curious.

    JD
    I've seen this episode before on a very special edition of "Blossom." This is the part where JDogger has forced DNF to remember that he got into medicine to help his fellow man; not make a comfortable living and repay his student loans. Then DNF says, "Gee, JDog, thanks for reminding me of what's really important!"
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  8. #28
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hew View Post
    I've seen this episode before on a very special edition of "Blossom." This is the part where JDogger has forced DNF to remember that he got into medicine to help his fellow man; not make a comfortable living and repay his student loans. Then DNF says, "Gee, JDog, thanks for reminding me of what's really important!"
    No, you got the wrong episode Hew. It's where some jack-%$$ know-it-all jumps in and answers questions that weren't even directed at him!

    And yes, I'm proud of what I do. If you have a problem with that, and feel the need to ridicule for whatever reason, I feel sorry for you. Try to have a nice day.

    JD, we can PM, where there's less childish distractions.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  9. #29
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    No, you got the wrong episode Hew. It's where some jack-%$$ know-it-all jumps in and answers questions that weren't even directed at him!

    And yes, I'm proud of what I do. If you have a problem with that, and feel the need to ridicule for whatever reason, I feel sorry for you. Try to have a nice day.

    JD, we can PM, where there's less childish distractions.
    Flinch much? It was sarcasm (or in your case, sarchasm) directed at JDog, who in his own special subtle-as-a-hammer way, was trying to say that doctors aren't in it for the money anyway so why should they care what the govt. decides to pay them. I guess his point eluded you, too.

    Open up the cabinet and rummage around for something to take the edge off, doc.
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  10. #30
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    I'd be curious to know where doctors' salaries rank here versus where doctors' salaries rank in some other countries--may try to find out. If anyone knows, please at least indicate a source if not cite one.

    I don't think having a single-payer health system would preclude doctors being paid very well, or outstanding doctors being paid very, very, very well. In fact, I think it would be absolutely necessary.

    As far as the level of student entering medicine--I understand that for the last 20 years it's been far more difficult to get into veterinary school than medical school. I would hope they'd at least be equally competitive... (no offense to the doctors on board--I'm a teacher, and our collective IQ ain't so hot--I'm just sayin')

    Like I said, though--we're not ready for national health care, and I see no point in forcing it. I just wish it were part of the dialogue.
    --Greta Ode
    willing slave to the whims of
    Kerrybrooks Magical Atticus MH
    Coastalight Kiowa Ravenhawk MH

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