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Thread: Jesse Ventura Conspiracy theory

  1. #61
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    Ignoring what issues? And, is it us that needs to fix something because they hate us?
    Issues such as occupation of muslim nations. Your hero, George W. Bush considered this issue, and under his leadership, we withdrew from our bases in Saudi Arabia. That was one thing that I think he was right on with. And yes, since we're the one's projecting ourselves throughout the world, in the majority of cases for damn good reasons, we do need to be the ones who wield our power responsibly. Is that too much to ask? In the military there's a saying, "rank has it privelage, and rank has its responsibility." We hold rank in the world, and have always rendered it responsibly.

    Does that answer your question?
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  2. #62
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Yes, your opinion is we need to apologize for being us.

    In case you forgot 9/11. They hated us before we occupied any nation.
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  3. #63
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    You guys are so quick to dodge issues and attribute you false notions to other's opinions! I answered your question, and you quickly try to divert with false accusations of my opinion!? I just visited the WTC site last week, so no, I haven't forgotten. Perhaps YOU have forgotten who attacked us? I'll give you a hint: it wasn't Saddam Hussein!

    Also, if you don't think we've ever occupied Muslin nations prior to 9-11, there's no use continuing this discussion. I'm not a history teacher....I don't even play one on tv.

    And no, I don't think we need to apologize. Even though Bush's pre-emptive attack policies were based on lies and reperesented a departure from our 200+ years of successful foreign policy, he was our president, and we don't need to apologize. We need to make sure that doesn't happen again.

    Go ahead with more false mind-reading attempts and diversions now....
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    You guys are so quick to dodge issues and attribute you false notions to other's opinions! I answered your question, and you quickly try to divert with false accusations of my opinion!? I just visited the WTC site last week, so no, I haven't forgotten. Perhaps YOU have forgotten who attacked us? I'll give you a hint: it wasn't Saddam Hussein!

    Also, if you don't think we've ever occupied Muslin nations prior to 9-11, there's no use continuing this discussion. I'm not a history teacher....I don't even play one on tv.

    And no, I don't think we need to apologize. Even though Bush's pre-emptive attack policies were based on lies and reperesented a departure from our 200+ years of successful foreign policy, he was our president, and we don't need to apologize. We need to make sure that doesn't happen again.

    Go ahead with more false mind-reading attempts and diversions now....
    therein shows your mindset. there were no "lies", just bad intel. intel that was gathered under the previous Clinton administration, as well as under the beginning of Bush. Intel that was believed and backed by Kerry and other Dems as well. how many times did we hear Bush blame Clinton?? ZERO

    and if you dont thing Saddam had WMD and got rid of them (likely to Syria) and he was innocent the whole time then, fine, that just shows your true colors more...

  5. #65
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david gibson View Post
    therein shows your mindset. there were no "lies", just bad intel. intel that was gathered under the previous Clinton administration, as well as under the beginning of Bush. Intel that was believed and backed by Kerry and other Dems as well. how many times did we hear Bush blame Clinton?? ZERO

    and if you dont thing Saddam had WMD and got rid of them (likely to Syria) and he was innocent the whole time then, fine, that just shows your true colors more...
    Yes, Saddam did have WMDs. (past tense) I was there when Clinton launched the last large wave of attacks prior to the second Gulf War, in response to Saddam removing the UNSCOM inspectors. The bombing campaign was designed to rid Iraq of all known WMD facilities. We'll never know if they were destroyed in that bombing campaign or shuttled to neighbors. The fact they haven't surfaced through intel or usage to this day makes one think they may have been destroyed. Again, we'll never know. I'll never forget hearing the f-15s launching into the night at full afterburner in support of those bombing missions, wondering what the next days would bring. We knew there were scuds pointed at us, and feared he would launch in a "last hurrah". Nothing, fortunately, ever came.

    If this was an honest mistake by intel, why was Joe Wilson dismissed and his wife the target of Cheney/Scooter when he made the egregious error of pointing out that the sole intel source for the yellowcake from Niger was dubious at best? Wouldn't a responsible administration at least look into this? I've heard intel analysts state that to base policy on single-source intel is haphazard at best, and not 'how its done'. And the Downing street memos stating that the intel was to be made to "fit" the war plan? Come on. We may have been born at night, but not LAST night!
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  6. #66
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    Yes, Saddam did have WMDs. (past tense) I was there when Clinton launched the last large wave of attacks prior to the second Gulf War, in response to Saddam removing the UNSCOM inspectors. Actually, Saddam didn't remove the inspectors; Clinton and the UN did...in order to pave the way for the bombing to come. Many have commented that Clinton was hell-bent on the bombing and was just ginning up an excuse. I happen to think it was justified. The bombing campaign was designed to rid Iraq of all known WMD facilities. Not according to Madeline Albright. In her words, it was designed to "degrade" Iraq's ability to use WMDs, and that there was no pretense that we'd end the threat of WMDs in Iraq. We'll never know if they were destroyed in that bombing campaign or shuttled to neighbors. Well, the Secretary of State said we didn't even pretend to try to destroy them all. She and other Clinton admin officials continued to warn about IRaq WMD threats well after Desert Fox. The fact they haven't surfaced through intel or usage to this day makes one think they may have been destroyed. Again, we'll never know. I'll never forget hearing the f-15s launching into the night at full afterburner in support of those bombing missions, wondering what the next days would bring. We knew there were scuds pointed at us, and feared he would launch in a "last hurrah". Nothing, fortunately, ever came. I've got no qualms with somebody who distrusts the govt. and thinks that the threat of WMDs in Iraq was exaggerated. Perfectly reasonable thinking; if applied to both administrations. I draw a line though at folks who claim Bush manufactured WMD threats while at the same time pretending that Clinton didn't do the same thing. That's just partisan hackery at its worst. Heck, much of the intelligence, justification and rhetoric Bush used to invade Iraq was the same intelligence, justification and rhetoric that Clinton had aquired/used in his previous 8 years.

    Take a murderous, destabilizing tyrant and add all the WMD doomsday claims made by Clinton admin officials and prominent Democrats (and Republicans), add 3,000 dead Americans and stir and you've got a perfect storm of rationale and justification to invade Iraq.

    BTW, a few days ago you used your anecdotal experience to claim that there was not one violation of the southern no-fly zone while you were there. Knowing now that you were over there in Dec. of '98 and knowing that there was a flurry of Iraq no-fly zone violations just before and well after Desert Fox (including a freakin' dogfight between two Iraqi jets and two American jets just a few weeks after Desert Fox), would you care to ammend your previous claim or did I somehow misunderstand what you'd previously wrote?
    .....................
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  7. #67
    Senior Member dnf777's Avatar
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    While I was there, the pilots I had lunch with during my time at Prince Sultan Air Base (PSAB) said it was a boring mission for them. No scrambles other than drills. They did enjoy the cheap Jet-A with frequent afterburner climb-outs, which are costly when paying full price.

    Maybe the bombing wasn't desinged to rid all the WMDs, but I find it interesting that none of them have ever surfaced, either through intel or by usage. But I'm not claiming Clinton bombed all of them into non-existence. I said we'll never know.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

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