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Thread: Speaking of philosophical...

  1. #1
    Senior Member Alec Sparks's Avatar
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    Default Speaking of philosophical...

    Disclaimer: Warning, potentially deep thought ahead.

    Anyone care to address/comment/wax poetic/rant on the concept of people that train dogs compared with people that are dog trainers?

    [Not am/pro oriented thankyouverymuch]
    I believe initial introduction 'pinch to open' FF doctrine is as progressive as shooting a dog with bird shot to get it to sit on a whistle. AS

    *"That you are confused is VERY APPARENT. Are you a politician as well as a FORMER pro dog trainer who QUIT because YOU think that the trial game is all wrong?"
    *

  2. #2
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Could it be like the old Vermont farmer who had a prize, registered bull that he studded out to the neighboring farms. And also had an older bull with less of a pedigree that he kept and let service a few heifers each year. One day the grandson asked “Grandpa, what bull is better?” Grandpa thought for a while and replied, “Neither, both are very good bulls and produce strong calves. It’s just, one does it because it needs to and the other does it for the fun.”

    .
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  3. #3
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    I've come to the conclusion over the years that my dogs are the dog trainers trainer.

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
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    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

  4. #4
    Senior Member Alec Sparks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    Could it be like the old Vermont farmer who had a prize, registered bull that he studded out to the neighboring farms. And also had an older bull with less of a pedigree that he kept and let service a few heifers each year. One day the grandson asked “Grandpa, what bull is better?” Grandpa thought for a while and replied, “Neither, both are very good bulls and produce strong calves. It’s just, one does it because it needs to and the other does it for the fun.”

    .
    I think you're touching on it with the word 'need'. But defining and expanding on that is complex and is bound to ruffle feathers.....

    I knew/know some people that were/are dog trainers and some other by reputation but I know a ton of people that train dogs.
    I believe initial introduction 'pinch to open' FF doctrine is as progressive as shooting a dog with bird shot to get it to sit on a whistle. AS

    *"That you are confused is VERY APPARENT. Are you a politician as well as a FORMER pro dog trainer who QUIT because YOU think that the trial game is all wrong?"
    *

  5. #5
    Senior Member Steve Hamel's Avatar
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    Alec,

    "Know Thyself"...........

    I have alot of hobbies. Some I'm good at, some I'm mediocre at, and some I work at, but still enjoy doing.

    Most of my hobbies are not judged in any way. Dog training is judged . So, when a person is judged at the highest level of the game he plays, and qualifies, is he a trainer, or just training dogs ?
    "Are you a good witch, or a bad witch ?" Glinda, the good witch of the North.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Alec Sparks's Avatar
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    Dog trainers and people that train dogs both run trials.
    I believe initial introduction 'pinch to open' FF doctrine is as progressive as shooting a dog with bird shot to get it to sit on a whistle. AS

    *"That you are confused is VERY APPARENT. Are you a politician as well as a FORMER pro dog trainer who QUIT because YOU think that the trial game is all wrong?"
    *

  7. #7
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    If a person were to ask both a dog trainer and a person who trains dogs, “why are you training that dog” would the answer be the same?

    .
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

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    If a person were to ask both a dog trainer and a person who trains dogs, “why are you training that dog” would the answer be the same?
    Ken
    Thats not very philisophical

    Pete

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    I disagree,
    While the obvious answer would be “so it will be able to pick up ducks and bring them to me”
    But the actual answer could vary from anything as simple as “I want to spend time with my dog” to “I am bettering my technique and gaining experience on how to be the best trainer of dogs I can be” and everything in-between.


    .
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  10. #10
    Senior Member Alec Sparks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    If a person were to ask both a dog trainer and a person who trains dogs, “why are you training that dog” would the answer be the same?

    .
    On the surface.....probably yes, to some degree.

    It's the approach/connection/motivation/ability/aptitude/emotion/insight/thought process and more IMO. I think it's really hard to get all the coons up the same tree at the same time even if the desire is there....
    I believe initial introduction 'pinch to open' FF doctrine is as progressive as shooting a dog with bird shot to get it to sit on a whistle. AS

    *"That you are confused is VERY APPARENT. Are you a politician as well as a FORMER pro dog trainer who QUIT because YOU think that the trial game is all wrong?"
    *

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