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Thread: Speaking of philosophical...

  1. #61
    Senior Member duk4me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pals View Post
    That line in particular speaks volumes. In my opinion (worth a whole $.01 after taxes) that is a key factor in this here philosophical question.
    LMAO as the birds fly over some peoples head. Classic
    I have learned I need these dogs much more than they need me. Tim Bockmon

  2. #62
    Senior Member Matt McKenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pals View Post
    That line in particular speaks volumes. In my opinion (worth a whole $.01 after taxes) that is a key factor in this here philosophical question.
    That seems to insinuate that one who choses to move on when it becomes apparent that a dog doesn't have the ability to achieve the desired level of performance is less of a trainer. That would eliminate quite a few good dog men who (along with their clients) want to win in a very competitive sport. Training a challenging dog may be personally rewarding for them, but winning at the highest level is their goal. But many of those people could do more with less dog than most of us commenting on this thread. They just chose to spend their time on the best dog possible. One man's opinion.
    Matt McKenzie

    "Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it." Henry Ford

  3. #63
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt McKenzie View Post
    That seems to insinuate that one who choses to move on when it becomes apparent that a dog doesn't have the ability to achieve the desired level of performance is less of a trainer. That would eliminate quite a few good dog men who (along with their clients) want to win in a very competitive sport. Training a challenging dog may be personally rewarding for them, but winning at the highest level is their goal. But many of those people could do more with less dog than most of us commenting on this thread. They just chose to spend their time on the best dog possible. One man's opinion.
    I think it takes a good trainer to recognize when their dog can only go so far in the sport!
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
    HR Blackie 2 CGN, WCI
    Metras's Hashtag Mickey


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  4. #64
    Senior Member Pals's Avatar
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    Who said anything about competing or winning? This is a philosophical question about being a trainer of dogs or a dog trainer. Giving up and moving on.....to what? Does not matter what you train your dog to do--- pet tricks, home companion or world champion ______. It is still training-no? Success has different meanings to everyone. Some dogs, no matter how 'easy' to train are too much for some people. Some people can only go so far. Being able to recognize that a square peg will not fit in a round hole is part of dog training. Each dog is unique. Happiness is not having the best of everything, it is making the best of everything you have. And thats the difference, IMHO to this question of Alecs.

    Archie has finally mastered down stay--go me!! There will be a party at the shed this weekend to celebrate, come on down.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Good Dogs's Avatar
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    An offhand comment I picked up on last weekend at BBKI. "Training is not linear." The parallel to train the dog, not the program. I have a great deal of respect for those who know how to "read" their dog and not so much for those whose answer might begin with "The way I train my dogs is . . .."

  6. #66
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    This past weekends training day with a group of people I have great respect for, was a triple, kinda wide open, but not to much,the flyer was a chicken(Flinch has never seen a chicken)...

    Flinch has run very few triples...

    In the past, I would have looked at that set up, got all worried,, and prolly done everything wrong at the line.

    Well, Saturday, I found myself MUCH more relaxed. I could keep my wits about me as to how to posistion thedog on the line,, make sure I took time between the birds,,and worked at communicating with thedog.

    Flinch sat perfectly steady through all the birds, waited for my hand to come down to be sent,, and basically clobbered the marks.. The chicken wasnt a big deal at all,, wasnt hit hard,, and was still flapping and squirming in her mouth,,she just brought it back..

    A voice behind me comming from the head master,, said "You know,, that was really quite good!!!! Good for you Flinch!!!

    For Us to get that compliment from that person,,meant more to me than any ribbon I could have ever recieved... That compliment came from the heart,,and they dont come easy from her.. You wont get one unless you deserve it...

    The TRAINING is starting to pay off, for both the dog and a very nervous me..

    It is just great fun!!

    To me,,, personally,, if you find the right training group, that consists of a group of very experienced people, that take training days seriously,, when success comes,, and you hear about it,, it means so much more, at least to me,, than a ribbon at the end of a test, that comes from a couple of folks, that many times, you dont know squat about. You dont know their expertise,, the level or competence their dog runs at.Sure, you can go look it up on EE,, but look mine up!!!
    You will see in the past, you will see some meager success,, but quite frankly, looking back,, I dont feel we deserved some of those passes. There were definatly lienient judges involved..

    Idont think EE gives a end all answer as to a persons success.

    There are a LOT of real nice dogs out there that have never run a ht.
    They may compete in FT,and because of how hard it is to place, wont have placements there either,,, But,, there are MANY damnfine dogs that fit this discription,and their trainers are very knowlageble and dedicated to the dog..

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  7. #67
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    This past weekends training day with a group of people I have great respect for, was a triple, kinda wide open, but not to much,the flyer was a chicken(Flinch has never seen a chicken)...

    Flinch has run very few triples...

    In the past, I would have looked at that set up, got all worried,, and prolly done everything wrong at the line.

    Well, Saturday, I found myself MUCH more relaxed. I could keep my wits about me as to how to posistion thedog on the line,, make sure I took time between the birds,,and worked at communicating with thedog.

    Flinch sat perfectly steady through all the birds, waited for my hand to come down to be sent,, and basically clobbered the marks.. The chicken wasnt a big deal at all,, wasnt hit hard,, and was still flapping and squirming in her mouth,,she just brought it back..

    A voice behind me comming from the head master,, said "You know,, that was really quite good!!!! Good for you Flinch!!!

    For Us to get that compliment from that person,,meant more to me than any ribbon I could have ever recieved... That compliment came from the heart,,and they dont come easy from her.. You wont get one unless you deserve it...

    The TRAINING is starting to pay off, for both the dog and a very nervous me..

    It is just great fun!!

    To me,,, personally,, if you find the right training group, that consists of a group of very experienced people, that take training days seriously,, when success comes,, and you hear about it,, it means so much more, at least to me,, than a ribbon at the end of a test, that comes from a couple of folks, that many times, you dont know squat about. You dont know their expertise,, the level or competence their dog runs at.Sure, you can go look it up on EE,, but look mine up!!!
    You will see in the past, you will see some meager success,, but quite frankly, looking back,, I dont feel we deserved some of those passes. There were definatly lienient judges involved..

    Idont think EE gives a end all answer as to a persons success.

    There are a LOT of real nice dogs out there that have never run a ht.
    They may compete in FT,and because of how hard it is to place, wont have placements there either,,, But,, there are MANY damnfine dogs that fit this discription,and their trainers are very knowlageble and dedicated to the dog..

    Gooser
    Gooser, your growth is showing. Training dogs or being a dog trainer, which to me is the difference between an action and a title, is about enjoying the learning process with a unique individual animal. Real happiness and success comes in watching them grow and learning yourself. Tests/Trials is where you showcase the advancement of the dog, but in itself does not equate to happiness and success. Some of my greatest successes are with dogs that never ran a test or even had a chance at upper level training, but their growth and ability to function in their respective role was more personally fulfilling than many of my HT or FT candidates.

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
    http://gundog2002.blogspot.com/
    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

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