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Speaking of philosophical...

10K views 66 replies 39 participants last post by  Gun_Dog2002 
#1 ·
Disclaimer: Warning, potentially deep thought ahead.

Anyone care to address/comment/wax poetic/rant on the concept of people that train dogs compared with people that are dog trainers?

[Not am/pro oriented thankyouverymuch]
 
#2 ·
Could it be like the old Vermont farmer who had a prize, registered bull that he studded out to the neighboring farms. And also had an older bull with less of a pedigree that he kept and let service a few heifers each year. One day the grandson asked “Grandpa, what bull is better?” Grandpa thought for a while and replied, “Neither, both are very good bulls and produce strong calves. It’s just, one does it because it needs to and the other does it for the fun.”

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#4 ·
Could it be like the old Vermont farmer who had a prize, registered bull that he studded out to the neighboring farms. And also had an older bull with less of a pedigree that he kept and let service a few heifers each year. One day the grandson asked “Grandpa, what bull is better?” Grandpa thought for a while and replied, “Neither, both are very good bulls and produce strong calves. It’s just, one does it because it needs to and the other does it for the fun.”

.
I think you're touching on it with the word 'need'. But defining and expanding on that is complex and is bound to ruffle feathers.....

I knew/know some people that were/are dog trainers and some other by reputation but I know a ton of people that train dogs.
 
#5 ·
Alec,

"Know Thyself"...........

I have alot of hobbies. Some I'm good at, some I'm mediocre at, and some I work at, but still enjoy doing.

Most of my hobbies are not judged in any way. Dog training is judged . So, when a person is judged at the highest level of the game he plays, and qualifies, is he a trainer, or just training dogs ?
 
#10 ·
If a person were to ask both a dog trainer and a person who trains dogs, “why are you training that dog” would the answer be the same?

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On the surface.....probably yes, to some degree.

It's the approach/connection/motivation/ability/aptitude/emotion/insight/thought process and more IMO. I think it's really hard to get all the ***** up the same tree at the same time even if the desire is there....
 
#9 ·
I disagree,
While the obvious answer would be “so it will be able to pick up ducks and bring them to me”
But the actual answer could vary from anything as simple as “I want to spend time with my dog” to “I am bettering my technique and gaining experience on how to be the best trainer of dogs I can be” and everything in-between.


.
 
#13 ·
Not to put words into Alec's mouth, but what I think he's talking about is the fact that not everyone who trains a dog is a "dog trainer" any more than everyone who sits on a horse is a rider. What is it that separates the true dog trainers from the rest of those out there training dogs?
 
#16 ·
I would say that is the best answer yet....
 
#19 ·
I'm only going to address those who run the dogs they train them self)

There are some who train nothing but the creme de la creme.

There are some that train the luck of the draw. by the seat of their pants.

How does one comparatively measure their ability to train dogs by Trial result

john
 
#21 ·
A dog trainer figures out what to do when things aren't working out so well. He knows how to get to the root cause, break it down for the dog, and work through the problem.

A person who just trains dogs, is one dimesional and just sticks with the program no matter what?
 
#22 ·
..........they are but one way would be more like it and not a very good one at that.

I say a good test would be to swap dogs for awhile and see how these successful trainers would make out with string of "B" list dogs.

No washouts regards,

john
 
#23 ·
Love the question - myriads of possibilities depending on the perspective.

How about defining a dog trainer as one who embraces the necessity of establishing a line of communication between the handler and the dog; A person who trains dogs as one who imparts a fixed set of skills to the dog alone?
 
#24 · (Edited)
Grasshopper," those that train dogs, know training, the what, but not dogs. Dog trainers know training, the what, and dogs. Others words Grasshopper they know the why. Why very important Grasshopper. Know dog's mind. Some get it (dog trainers) some never get it (trainer of dogs). Some have good feel of dogs, train own dogs. Some do not, many of them hire pro. Good pro know dog's mind, know why".

Zen-Buddhist post!
 
#25 ·
Now what about the bad dog trainers? Is it possible that a randomly picked person who trains dogs could very well do a better job than a randomly picked dog trainer? Who decides? Is it the public looking at the person or the person looking at themselves? Is it the village pointing and saying, “That there feller is a dog trainer”. Or the individual saying “I am a Dog Trainer”?.

.
 
#28 ·
Am reading "Last Train to Memphis", the first part of a two part biography of Elvis Presley.

The problem is folks want to button down others in little boxes, so as to be more secure in dealing with them. Elvis was first categorized as a country/western singer. You know the rest.

Some of the trainers who started the field trial movement in the U.S. were actually sheep dog trainers. Now days, they would be asked whether their dog could do a 400 yard blind, and, if they couldn't, they would be deleted as "retriever trainers."

If you put people and dogs in boxes, you get only what is in those boxes. When you try to label those boxes as being directed by one ideology or another, you forget the original purpose.

I'm not an Elvis fan--Springsteen and Marvin Gaye are my goose bumpers. Ask me who is the greatest guitarist ever and I might start with Hendrix, but I also want to put Andres Segovia, Jack Bruce, and Slow Hand into the mix.

What group of dogs contributed more to what YOU think is important THIS week: dogs in field trials or dogs in search and rescue in Haiti?

The question of trainer of dogs versus dog trainer is crazy. It would be like asking the doctor who was about to do cardiac bypass surgery: are you a saver of patients or a reamer of arteries?

If a man defines himself as a "dog trainer", what exactly is his duty? Is it to train a dog to rescue other beings, sniff out bombs designed to blow up an airplane, or pick up a duck at 400 yards?

Sorry, but this thread is a no-go for me.

Define the ultimate function of the dog and then link that with what you consider dog trainers and people who train dogs.

J. Marti
 
#32 ·
In essence Alec, you're asking the difference between someone who can gain the respect of thier peers vs. someone who can't.

Given the lack of absolutes in this thing we call "dog training", I'm not entirely sure anyone is qualified to judge anyone else on any basis.

Hopefully, everyone we encounter just loves thier dog and wants to give it the opportunity to enjoy it's life to the fullest...

Some will be more adept at that than others, as is the case in all endeavors we humans undertake.

That doesn't, in my mind mean I should be labelling people one way or another.
 
#33 ·
I've been following this thread since it first started. Being philosophical isn't something you switch on and off, but my pondering mode has finally kicked in. So this hypothetical situation kind of popped into my head. At first, I had no idea where it would lead.

Two strangers meet on an airplane. After the normal exchange of "hellos" and "how are you?" One asks the other (other being me), "Do you have any hobbies?" I replied, "Yes. I have four dogs that I train often."

He asks, "Are you a trainer of dogs or a dog trainer?" Well, being kind of a smart "donkey" and caught off guard a bit, I replied, "Yes."

In my mind, I'm thinking, "Do those mean two different things?" and "He did say or."

His polite reply was, "I guess so." To which I replied, "I never thought about it that much." The stranger's retort was, "Me either, but yesterday I was reading a thread on the RTF and was hoping you could clear that up for me."

Two hours of silence pass. The plane is about to land, and the stranger turns and asks, "Well, what do you think?" My reply was, "About what?" :)
 
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