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Thread: Speaking of philosophical...

  1. #21
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    A dog trainer figures out what to do when things aren't working out so well. He knows how to get to the root cause, break it down for the dog, and work through the problem.

    A person who just trains dogs, is one dimesional and just sticks with the program no matter what?

  2. #22
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    ..........they are but one way would be more like it and not a very good one at that.

    I say a good test would be to swap dogs for awhile and see how these successful trainers would make out with string of "B" list dogs.

    No washouts regards,

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  3. #23
    Senior Member red devil's Avatar
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    Love the question - myriads of possibilities depending on the perspective.

    How about defining a dog trainer as one who embraces the necessity of establishing a line of communication between the handler and the dog; A person who trains dogs as one who imparts a fixed set of skills to the dog alone?
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  4. #24
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    Grasshopper," those that train dogs, know training, the what, but not dogs. Dog trainers know training, the what, and dogs. Others words Grasshopper they know the why. Why very important Grasshopper. Know dog's mind. Some get it (dog trainers) some never get it (trainer of dogs). Some have good feel of dogs, train own dogs. Some do not, many of them hire pro. Good pro know dog's mind, know why".

    Zen-Buddhist post!
    Last edited by Losthwy; 01-13-2010 at 10:39 PM.
    What its prominence suggest, and what all science confirms is that the dog is a creature of the nose- A. Horowitz.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Now what about the bad dog trainers? Is it possible that a randomly picked person who trains dogs could very well do a better job than a randomly picked dog trainer? Who decides? Is it the public looking at the person or the person looking at themselves? Is it the village pointing and saying, “That there feller is a dog trainer”. Or the individual saying “I am a Dog Trainer”?.

    .
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

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  6. #26
    Senior Member Alec Sparks's Avatar
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    I think we're scratching the surface of dog trainers now.
    I believe initial introduction 'pinch to open' FF doctrine is as progressive as shooting a dog with bird shot to get it to sit on a whistle. AS

    *"That you are confused is VERY APPARENT. Are you a politician as well as a FORMER pro dog trainer who QUIT because YOU think that the trial game is all wrong?"
    *

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alec Sparks

    Anyone care to address/comment/wax poetic/rant on the concept of people that train dogs compared with people that are dog trainers?
    ]
    People that train dogs describes the actions of the person.

    Dog trainers implies the dog is actually learning something.


    JMO

    Tim
    You order a Lab; ask a Golden; but negotiate with a Chesapeake!

  8. #28
    Senior Member kindakinky's Avatar
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    Am reading "Last Train to Memphis", the first part of a two part biography of Elvis Presley.

    The problem is folks want to button down others in little boxes, so as to be more secure in dealing with them. Elvis was first categorized as a country/western singer. You know the rest.

    Some of the trainers who started the field trial movement in the U.S. were actually sheep dog trainers. Now days, they would be asked whether their dog could do a 400 yard blind, and, if they couldn't, they would be deleted as "retriever trainers."

    If you put people and dogs in boxes, you get only what is in those boxes. When you try to label those boxes as being directed by one ideology or another, you forget the original purpose.

    I'm not an Elvis fan--Springsteen and Marvin Gaye are my goose bumpers. Ask me who is the greatest guitarist ever and I might start with Hendrix, but I also want to put Andres Segovia, Jack Bruce, and Slow Hand into the mix.

    What group of dogs contributed more to what YOU think is important THIS week: dogs in field trials or dogs in search and rescue in Haiti?

    The question of trainer of dogs versus dog trainer is crazy. It would be like asking the doctor who was about to do cardiac bypass surgery: are you a saver of patients or a reamer of arteries?

    If a man defines himself as a "dog trainer", what exactly is his duty? Is it to train a dog to rescue other beings, sniff out bombs designed to blow up an airplane, or pick up a duck at 400 yards?

    Sorry, but this thread is a no-go for me.

    Define the ultimate function of the dog and then link that with what you consider dog trainers and people who train dogs.

    J. Marti

  9. #29
    Senior Member kindakinky's Avatar
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    Added question: define a trained dog.

    Ya can't talk about people who train dogs and dog trainers unless you define what a trained dog IS.

    J. Marti


    Quote Originally Posted by Alec Sparks View Post
    Disclaimer: Warning, potentially deep thought ahead.

    Anyone care to address/comment/wax poetic/rant on the concept of people that train dogs compared with people that are dog trainers?

    [Not am/pro oriented thankyouverymuch]

  10. #30
    Senior Member Alec Sparks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kindakinky View Post
    Am reading "Last Train to Memphis", the first part of a two part biography of Elvis Presley.

    The problem is folks want to button down others in little boxes, so as to be more secure in dealing with them. Elvis was first categorized as a country/western singer. You know the rest.

    Some of the trainers who started the field trial movement in the U.S. were actually sheep dog trainers. Now days, they would be asked whether their dog could do a 400 yard blind, and, if they couldn't, they would be deleted as "retriever trainers."

    If you put people and dogs in boxes, you get only what is in those boxes. When you try to label those boxes as being directed by one ideology or another, you forget the original purpose.

    I'm not an Elvis fan--Springsteen and Marvin Gaye are my goose bumpers. Ask me who is the greatest guitarist ever and I might start with Hendrix, but I also want to put Andres Segovia, Jack Bruce, and Slow Hand into the mix.

    What group of dogs contributed more to what YOU think is important THIS week: dogs in field trials or dogs in search and rescue in Haiti?

    The question of trainer of dogs versus dog trainer is crazy. It would be like asking the doctor who was about to do cardiac bypass surgery: are you a saver of patients or a reamer of arteries?

    If a man defines himself as a "dog trainer", what exactly is his duty? Is it to train a dog to rescue other beings, sniff out bombs designed to blow up an airplane, or pick up a duck at 400 yards?

    Sorry, but this thread is a no-go for me.

    Define the ultimate function of the dog and then link that with what you consider dog trainers and people who train dogs.

    J. Marti
    Man, that's a lot of copy for a post that's a "no-go" [were you foced correctly?]

    Nuts and bolts are pretty boring to me these days. atmo.
    I believe initial introduction 'pinch to open' FF doctrine is as progressive as shooting a dog with bird shot to get it to sit on a whistle. AS

    *"That you are confused is VERY APPARENT. Are you a politician as well as a FORMER pro dog trainer who QUIT because YOU think that the trial game is all wrong?"
    *

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