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Thread: English Golden Retrievers

  1. #1
    Member Aries's Avatar
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    Default English Golden Retrievers

    English (Cream) Golden Retrievers

    I have been searching for about the last 7/6 months for a Golden to train for hunting. In the beginning I had a eye on a English Golden what I have found is they are more show then anything.

    Are there any English Golden's that are breed for hunt retrieve?

    I have changed my search to a rustic color because these are what I have found that are breed for more hunt oriented tasks.

    I'm I correct on this?

    (Besides, rustic is more towards the color of my old friend Chandler)

  2. #2
    Senior Member Redgolden's Avatar
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    Hi !

    All depends what are your goals. If you wish to have a proper working golden, the ones that are like the origins of the breed and are bred for work since the very begining, you'll get it all. If you wish to have an English cream Golden, have a look in Europe (there are still working lines in England and some other Northern European countries)... but even so, we export some dogs over there as the rustic type is known to work well, fast and hard. On the temperament side, you'll find the same lovable one as in show dogs.

    An other point, which is important IMO, is that the rustic is physically well adapted for work : fringes not too long, not too thick coat (dries off easily) but thick enough to work in cold conditions, general shape providing great speed at run or swim, not too big so they are very agile but big enough to retrieve all kind of birds.

    As I breed the rustic type goldens, my point of view may not be fully objective... ! Take some time and search thru Europe. You may find what you're looking for ! Have a look in England in their Field trials results. If you don't find what you want, there are a few breeders in Northern America that work with the rustic type. Even if this isn't your "first choice", the rustics will meet your expectations !

    Have fun in your research and I wish you to find YOUR dog (what ever bloodline it is) !!! Goldens all the way !
    Djanick Michaud
    Zomarick Golden Retrievers
    www.redgolden.com

    "Believing that our vision of the reality is the only reality that exsits is the most dangerous illusion" (Watzlawick)

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    There are many very good breedings now listed on this site as well as entry express. It seems to be a buyers market now, even for the best bred dogs. I can guarantee you that there are some very good golden pups now looking for a home. They range from just born out to several months old.One breeder I recently spoke with is frustrated as the pup with the most potential is still at the house.
    Keep Looking!
    Randy Hand
    Semper Klamath River Amber Ale** (Amber)
    Klamath's Heartbreak Kid (Valentino)

  4. #4
    Senior Member ErinsEdge's Avatar
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    Melanie Foster, Firemark Goldens has some very nice field pups available right now. melanief@earthlink.net
    Nancy P



    "We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made." M.Facklam

  5. #5
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redgolden View Post
    Hi !

    All depends what are your goals. If you wish to have a proper working golden, the ones that are like the origins of the breed and are bred for work since the very begining, you'll get it all. If you wish to have an English cream Golden, have a look in Europe (there are still working lines in England and some other Northern European countries)... but even so, we export some dogs over there as the rustic type is known to work well, fast and hard. On the temperament side, you'll find the same lovable one as in show dogs.

    An other point, which is important IMO, is that the rustic is physically well adapted for work : fringes not too long, not too thick coat (dries off easily) but thick enough to work in cold conditions, general shape providing great speed at run or swim, not too big so they are very agile but big enough to retrieve all kind of birds.

    As I breed the rustic type goldens, my point of view may not be fully objective... ! Take some time and search thru Europe. You may find what you're looking for ! Have a look in England in their Field trials results. If you don't find what you want, there are a few breeders in Northern America that work with the rustic type. Even if this isn't your "first choice", the rustics will meet your expectations !

    Have fun in your research and I wish you to find YOUR dog (what ever bloodline it is) !!! Goldens all the way !
    Djanick,
    Is rustic Golden a term you made up to describe our hardier field bred Goldens, or is it an actual movement up in Canada that I am unaware of? I like the term, makes a good distinction from the fluffy show Goldens.

    To the OP, most of todays US bred field trial Goldens can trace part of their linage back to Holway Barty, a super producing Golden that was imported from England in the early eighties. That said, even though many have tried, I think most have been disappointed with the Goldens that have come from the UK after Barty. If you are looking for a well built, stylish Golden that is good on land and water, I would stick with one out of proven field trial lines such as Melanie's.

    We also just bred my very nice Gus (Topbrass Montana Lonesome Dove) to a nice MH-obedience bitch in Illinois. Both dogs have hips, elbows and eye clearances, plus both are PRCD clear. My Gus got on the National derby list, won a qual at 28 months and earned an RJ in his first AA trial. Jessie (Kelakye Goldens), had seven puppies last week. I'm going to post a link on the classifieds later today. sorry for the plug, there are quite a few very nice Goldens running today.

    john

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    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    If you are looking at litters that are advertised as "English (Cream) Goldens", you will probably have a hard time finding any with any serious field backgrounds.

    If you are looking for a lighter colored golden only, you will have more luck, although you will have more to choose from if you don't mind a darker one.

    I used to like the lighter color a lot more back when it was fairly uncommon (I guess I am showing my age) but now that I see so many almost white goldens running around, I like the darker ones.

    My current guy is sort of latte colored.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Redgolden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    Djanick,
    Is rustic Golden a term you made up to describe our hardier field bred Goldens, or is it an actual movement up in Canada that I am unaware of? I like the term, makes a good distinction from the fluffy show Goldens.
    John,

    “Rustic” (almost same in French “Rustique”) refers to “like the origin”. At the very beginning, as you know, the red-copper color was found in those dogs. At the same time, they were all meant to be hunting dogs. At a certain point, which I couldn’t say when exactly, that split happened in the breed, having show dogs developed on one side and gundogs on the other.

    If you have a look at this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnVxqkrkS_I you’ll see how alike they are from those dogs that are the golden’s foundation.

    So, this way of calling the working type golden (as being a real hunting dog and dark color), I believe being the first that has used it about 8 years ago. And you’re right, this “appellation” was to distinguish them from the show type.

    In the past 8 years, I also screened as much as possible all Northern America to find other breeders. My idea is to propose to all of them I have found the use of that term. On the long run, we may have a specific recognition of our bloodlines and end that “fight” which has been on for quite some time between show and working type breeders. That way, they’ll all be goldens but one of the two would have the addition of “Rustic” to its breed name. The suggestion would be brought to the Kennel Clubs for splitting the breed like : Golden Retrievers and Rustics Golden Retrievers.

    This is a dream I have and do all what I can to give that idea all the structure to make it come true...

    Thanks for pointing it out ! If anyone takes the lead on that, I won’t be mad... I just hope someone will remember where the idea was from... and if some people are interested to work together on the idea, I’ll be so glad to participate !!!

    To the OP, most of todays US bred field trial Goldens can trace part of their linage back to Holway Barty, a super producing Golden that was imported from England in the early eighties. That said, even though many have tried, I think most have been disappointed with the Goldens that have come from the UK after Barty. If you are looking for a well built, stylish Golden that is good on land and water, I would stick with one out of proven field trial lines such as Melanie's.
    There are still a few that breed for field work in England. The main problem isn’t the ability of the dogs to work, it is the comparison between all the speed that we want and what is the work done there with the breed. In America, we can work on the breed to improve its performance but we all know that those performances can’t be reached if we keep the physical standard. In Europe, they do their best to have both. In some countries, to have the licence to authorize someone to breed a dog, it has to have conformation, obedience and a working recognition...

    In the field background, Barty was one of the very few that influenced the breed. But we have to look at what are the goals. FT dogs have to be, as it was said by someone else here, “on the edge”. English goldens are more on the “in control” type, not on the edge. They will tend to have a calming influence in the breedings. Their working goldens have all that birdiness but they won’t lift the ground behind their paws running toward a duck to show it. It’s like if they had in their blood all the phlegmatic side of the British people.

    When I went to England (20 years ago, I lived one year just at the border of Scotland), I discovered the golden thru the eyes of a retired breeder. He was over 80 y.o. and used to hunt with his old dog (his last from his kennel). The spirit they try to put behind the dogs there isn’t for speed, etc. It is for style, refinement and elegance. Don’t forget that at the beginning, this was all a “gentlemen’s game” reserved to Lords and Ducs ! What’s amazing is that man at that time told me about red goldens “back in time” and was saying “there must be some left somewhere” (and that was it, I was hooked !).

    We also just bred my very nice Gus (Topbrass Montana Lonesome Dove) to a nice MH-obedience bitch in Illinois. Both dogs have hips, elbows and eye clearances, plus both are PRCD clear. My Gus got on the National derby list, won a qual at 28 months and earned an RJ in his first AA trial. Jessie (Kelakye Goldens), had seven puppies last week. I'm going to post a link on the classifieds later today. sorry for the plug, there are quite a few very nice Goldens running today.
    No worry for the “plug”, this appears to be a nice breeding ! If the person who started this thread finally looks for a “rustic” golden, she’ll have that reference !

    PS : If anyone thinks I made mistakes in this long text, please be kind as I have no bad intentions behind anything I wrote. I took as much time as I could to write this down with the best English I have.
    Djanick Michaud
    Zomarick Golden Retrievers
    www.redgolden.com

    "Believing that our vision of the reality is the only reality that exsits is the most dangerous illusion" (Watzlawick)

  8. #8
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redgolden View Post
    John,


    PS : If anyone thinks I made mistakes in this long text, please be kind as I have no bad intentions behind anything I wrote. I took as much time as I could to write this down with the best English I have.
    You did great!

    John

  9. #9
    Senior Member Redgolden's Avatar
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    Thanks... did my best shot ! I hope I made some improvements lately...
    Djanick Michaud
    Zomarick Golden Retrievers
    www.redgolden.com

    "Believing that our vision of the reality is the only reality that exsits is the most dangerous illusion" (Watzlawick)

  10. #10
    Senior Member Diane Brunelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErinsEdge View Post
    Melanie Foster, Firemark Goldens has some very nice field pups available right now. melanief@earthlink.net
    If you are looking for a pup with tons of natural ability in the field, you can't go wrong with this breeding. I have one from the same sire and he is great! Awesome marker and very biddable, with tons of energy and desire to retrieve. Very smart, and sweet as can be. Everything we could have asked for in a retriever.

    Feel free to contact me if you want to know more.

    Good luck in your search for your hunting companion....Goldens rock!!!

    Diane
    Max, Maggie, Houston & (Orion)
    Avatar courtesy of Marsha Wilcox Photography

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