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Thread: Been on a plane recently?

  1. #41
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    For what it is worth, on Tuesday coming through immigration in Charlotte, they had a guy submit his fingerprints through the device right at passport control because he couldn't understand english well enough, and they put another guy in a booth to test for explosives and told him they would let him out if he passed. He looked muslim and had odd braces on his feet. I heard the inspector guy say something like "oh, sh**" when they called him out to do the test.

    The security I went through in the foreign airport was just going through the motions, and to be sure they were doing some subvert profiling because I didn't seem to concern them. White guys with a southern accent apparently don't fit the profile. It must be hard to fake. It looks to me like people trying to get a paycheck who want to do a good job but have an impossible task and possible poor management. It is the chance someone takes.

    The bomber on the plane from Amsterdam to Detroit doesn't necessarily look a radical muslim from his picture to me.

    The people who work in the airport have some leeway in what they do. Give some people some leeway and the profiling comes in automatically. They are already doing profiling.

    Another reason for not flying would be the swine flu. My flights gave me something.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie R. View Post
    I don't see how you can say profiling and scare tactics are being "sold" to the American public. Who's doing the selling? All I hear is your ilk trashing profiling, even that which correctly identifies a security risk, as not being PC or potentially hurting someone's feelings or the rallying cry of the lefties, "That's RACIST!"
    Hey, where's the kid? I feel gypped.
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  3. #43
    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
    The guy was a patient of my wife's. The other murder was a wife and mother-in-law. And BTW, EVERYONE here has camo! The murderer's Marlin was returned to him by a judge who said he could use it only for hunting, after having brandished it at his wife's workplace several years ago, and having it confiscated. This guy had a history of armed violence, substance abuse, and alcoholism. If there is anyone who should have their guns taken away, he was the poster child.

    So yes, in Venango county, Pa, your chances of being killed by a beer-drinkin middle-aged white male with a deer rifle are VASTLY greater than being blown up by a muslim terrorist! It's not rocket science. And yes, if a young mulsim showed up carrying a duffle-bag, you can BET he will be scrutinized and questioned, if not by authorities, by a bunch of beer-drinkin, middle-aged white men with deer rifles!

    http://www.city-data.com/city/Frankl...nsylvania.html

    You can see the city-data shows 2 murders as far back as they report. If you want to go back to the days of John Wilkes Boothe and the underground railroad, yes, there have probably been more. Maybe you were looking at the murder rate per 100,000, which is much greater because we don't have 100,000 people here.
    So if I an on an airplane, I have a better chance of getting shot by a middle-aged white guy with a deer rifle, then a Muslim extremist? We are talking about airport security aren't we?

  4. #44
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    Just relative risks, and effective screening strategies in general. I think its obvious that you try to statistically increase your efficacy of any screening process, if that includes racial profiling, then it needs to be tolerated. Indiscriminate prejudicial tactics are not what we as a country are about.
    God Bless PFC Jamie Harkness. The US Army's newest PFC, but still our neighbor's little girl!

  5. #45
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    There seems to be an almost universal assumption here that hijackings are committed by young, male Muslim religious radicals seeking to attack the west. I decided to test the hypothesis.

    In the last decade, as far as I can determine, there have been 12 significant incidents (counting the 9-11 hijackings as one incident) involving 14 planes. In addition to 9-11, only two of those incidents have involved Muslim extremists attempting to destroy the plane. The rest have ranged from a mentally ill Jamaican youth wanting to fly to Cuba, to a a bible carrying Bolivian religious fanatic wanting to meet with the President of Mexico, to a number of people seeking political asylum in western countries, to a disgruntled former airline employee, to people seeking money. A number of these incidents resulted in crashing the planes and killing all or most of those on board. The only such events where the planes were crashed that involved Muslim jihadists were those of 9-11.

    I've listed the incidents I was able to identify below if you are interested in checking for yourselves.
    • 2000 Phillipine sky-diver Reginald Chua hijacked plane with grenade and pistol to steal money. Killed after parachuting from plane. Philippine Airlines Flight 812
    • 2000, 11 November: an Vnukovo Airlines Tu-154 flying from Makhachkala to Moscow was hijacked by a man demanding it be diverted to Israel. The plane landed at Israeli military base where hijacker surrendered. None of 59 people onboard were injured
    • 2001, 15 March: another Vnukovo Airlines Tu-154 flying from Istanbul to Moscow was hijacked by a three Chechen terrorists demanding it be diverted to Saudi Arabia.
    • 2001: September 11 attacks, eastern USA: 19 terrorists hijacked American Airlines flights 11 and 77, and United Airlines flights 93 and 175
    • Richard Colvin Reid, a British citizen, attempted to ignite a shoe bomb on AA Flight 63, Paris-Miami. Member of al Qaeda
    • 2006: Turkish Airlines Flight 1476, flying from Tirana to Istanbul, was hijacked in Greek airspace by Hakan Ekinci who wanted to go to Rome to meet the Pope and request political asylum.. The aircraft, with 107 passengers and six crew on board,landed safely at Brindisi, Italy
    • 2007: an Air West Boeing 737 was hijacked over Sudan, but landed safely at N'Djamena, Chad. In this case the hijecker was reportedly a member of the Sudanese rebel movement and wanted to get to England.
    • 2007: an Air Mauritanie Boeing 737 flying from Nouakchott to Las Palmas with 87 passengers on board was hijacked by a man who wanted to fly to Paris, but the plane landed in an air base near Las Palmas and the hijacker, a Moroccan, was arrested. He was seeking political asylum in France.
    • 2008: a Sun Air Boeing 737 flying from Nyala, Darfur, in Western Sudan to the Sudanese capital, Khartoum, was hijacked shortly after takeoff. The hijackers demanded to be taken to France where they reputedly wanted to gain asylum.
    • 2009 Bolivian bible carrying religious fanatic hijacks AeroMexico flight with 103 passengers out of Cancun
    • 2009: AeroMéxico Flight 576, a Boeing 737-800 flying from Cancún to Mexico City was hijacked by José Marc Flores Pereira, a Bolivian citizen claiming he had a bomb and demanding to speak to Mexican president Felipe Calderón.
    • 2009 NWA Flt 253 from Amsterdam to Detroit disrupted when Nigerian Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab attempted to detonate an underwear bomb.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    There seems to be an almost universal assumption here that hijackings are committed by young, male Muslim religious radicals seeking to attack the west. I decided to test the hypothesis.

    In the last decade, as far as I can determine, there have been 12 significant incidents (counting the 9-11 hijackings as one incident) involving 14 planes. In addition to 9-11, only two of those incidents have involved Muslim extremists attempting to destroy the plane. The rest have ranged from a mentally ill Jamaican youth wanting to fly to Cuba, to a a bible carrying Bolivian religious fanatic wanting to meet with the President of Mexico, to a number of people seeking political asylum in western countries, to a disgruntled former airline employee, to people seeking money. A number of these incidents resulted in crashing the planes and killing all or most of those on board. The only such events where the planes were crashed that involved Muslim jihadists were those of 9-11.

    I've listed the incidents I was able to identify below if you are interested in checking for yourselves.
    • 2000 Phillipine sky-diver Reginald Chua hijacked plane with grenade and pistol to steal money. Killed after parachuting from plane. Philippine Airlines Flight 812
    • 2000, 11 November: an Vnukovo Airlines Tu-154 flying from Makhachkala to Moscow was hijacked by a man demanding it be diverted to Israel. The plane landed at Israeli military base where hijacker surrendered. None of 59 people onboard were injured
    • 2001, 15 March: another Vnukovo Airlines Tu-154 flying from Istanbul to Moscow was hijacked by a three Chechen terrorists demanding it be diverted to Saudi Arabia.
    • 2001: September 11 attacks, eastern USA: 19 terrorists hijacked American Airlines flights 11 and 77, and United Airlines flights 93 and 175
    • Richard Colvin Reid, a British citizen, attempted to ignite a shoe bomb on AA Flight 63, Paris-Miami. Member of al Qaeda
    • 2006: Turkish Airlines Flight 1476, flying from Tirana to Istanbul, was hijacked in Greek airspace by Hakan Ekinci who wanted to go to Rome to meet the Pope and request political asylum.. The aircraft, with 107 passengers and six crew on board,landed safely at Brindisi, Italy
    • 2007: an Air West Boeing 737 was hijacked over Sudan, but landed safely at N'Djamena, Chad. In this case the hijecker was reportedly a member of the Sudanese rebel movement and wanted to get to England.
    • 2007: an Air Mauritanie Boeing 737 flying from Nouakchott to Las Palmas with 87 passengers on board was hijacked by a man who wanted to fly to Paris, but the plane landed in an air base near Las Palmas and the hijacker, a Moroccan, was arrested. He was seeking political asylum in France.
    • 2008: a Sun Air Boeing 737 flying from Nyala, Darfur, in Western Sudan to the Sudanese capital, Khartoum, was hijacked shortly after takeoff. The hijackers demanded to be taken to France where they reputedly wanted to gain asylum.
    • 2009 Bolivian bible carrying religious fanatic hijacks AeroMexico flight with 103 passengers out of Cancun
    • 2009: AeroMéxico Flight 576, a Boeing 737-800 flying from Cancún to Mexico City was hijacked by José Marc Flores Pereira, a Bolivian citizen claiming he had a bomb and demanding to speak to Mexican president Felipe Calderón.
    • 2009 NWA Flt 253 from Amsterdam to Detroit disrupted when Nigerian Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab attempted to detonate an underwear bomb.
    Jeff, do you have stats on how many people each of these hijackers killed, and the religious affiliation of the ones that killed people?

  7. #47
    Senior Member dback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    There seems to be an almost universal assumption here that hijackings are committed by young, male Muslim religious radicals seeking to attack the west. I decided to test the hypothesis.

    In the last decade, as far as I can determine, there have been 12 significant incidents (counting the 9-11 hijackings as one incident) involving 14 planes. In addition to 9-11, only two of those incidents have involved Muslim extremists attempting to destroy the plane. The rest have ranged from a mentally ill Jamaican youth wanting to fly to Cuba, to a a bible carrying Bolivian religious fanatic wanting to meet with the President of Mexico, to a number of people seeking political asylum in western countries, to a disgruntled former airline employee, to people seeking money. A number of these incidents resulted in crashing the planes and killing all or most of those on board. The only such events where the planes were crashed that involved Muslim jihadists were those of 9-11.

    I've listed the incidents I was able to identify below if you are interested in checking for yourselves.
    • 2000 Phillipine sky-diver Reginald Chua hijacked plane with grenade and pistol to steal money. Killed after parachuting from plane. Philippine Airlines Flight 812
    • 2000, 11 November: an Vnukovo Airlines Tu-154 flying from Makhachkala to Moscow was hijacked by a man demanding it be diverted to Israel. The plane landed at Israeli military base where hijacker surrendered. None of 59 people onboard were injured
    • 2001, 15 March: another Vnukovo Airlines Tu-154 flying from Istanbul to Moscow was hijacked by a three Chechen terrorists demanding it be diverted to Saudi Arabia.
    • 2001: September 11 attacks, eastern USA: 19 terrorists hijacked American Airlines flights 11 and 77, and United Airlines flights 93 and 175
    • Richard Colvin Reid, a British citizen, attempted to ignite a shoe bomb on AA Flight 63, Paris-Miami. Member of al Qaeda
    • 2006: Turkish Airlines Flight 1476, flying from Tirana to Istanbul, was hijacked in Greek airspace by Hakan Ekinci who wanted to go to Rome to meet the Pope and request political asylum.. The aircraft, with 107 passengers and six crew on board,landed safely at Brindisi, Italy
    • 2007: an Air West Boeing 737 was hijacked over Sudan, but landed safely at N'Djamena, Chad. In this case the hijecker was reportedly a member of the Sudanese rebel movement and wanted to get to England.
    • 2007: an Air Mauritanie Boeing 737 flying from Nouakchott to Las Palmas with 87 passengers on board was hijacked by a man who wanted to fly to Paris, but the plane landed in an air base near Las Palmas and the hijacker, a Moroccan, was arrested. He was seeking political asylum in France.
    • 2008: a Sun Air Boeing 737 flying from Nyala, Darfur, in Western Sudan to the Sudanese capital, Khartoum, was hijacked shortly after takeoff. The hijackers demanded to be taken to France where they reputedly wanted to gain asylum.
    • 2009 Bolivian bible carrying religious fanatic hijacks AeroMexico flight with 103 passengers out of Cancun
    • 2009: AeroMéxico Flight 576, a Boeing 737-800 flying from Cancún to Mexico City was hijacked by José Marc Flores Pereira, a Bolivian citizen claiming he had a bomb and demanding to speak to Mexican president Felipe Calderón.
    • 2009 NWA Flt 253 from Amsterdam to Detroit disrupted when Nigerian Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab attempted to detonate an underwear bomb.
    Well, I guess you proved everyones point here Jeff. Of the six incidents involving the United States(four aircraft on 9/11, shoe bomber, panty bomber).....100% were 'young Muslim males'. Now if you are Mexico, the Phillipines or who ever else...they might want to 'profile' some other group.
    "What a difference a week makes. This week I feel like a football coach. Last week I felt like Britney Spears' choreographer."
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    Jeff, do you have stats on how many people each of these hijackers killed, and the religious affiliation of the ones that killed people?
    Is your point that almost 3000 were killed on 9-11? I actually made a mistake in my post since I was initially including another incident but it fell outside of the decade limit of my sample. Other than 9-11, only one of the these indicidents resulted in deaths of anyone except the hijacker. That was an instance where three passengers were killed by the assault team trying to capture the hijacker. 9-11, as far as I can tell, was the only incident in which terrorists or hijackers killed passengers or anyone other than themselves on a commercial air flight. Obviously, any of these incidents could have resulted is mass casualties. The fact remains that most commercial air acts of terrorism do not involve religious issues.

    EDIT: Will anyone admit to being surprised at that result?
    Last edited by YardleyLabs; 01-22-2010 at 07:44 PM.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Hoosier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    Is your point that almost 3000 were killed on 9-11? I actually made a mistake in my post since I was initially including another incident but it fell outside of the decade limit of my sample. Other than 9-11, only one of the these indicidents resulted in deaths of anyone except the hijacker. That was an instance where three passengers were killed by the assault team trying to capture the hijacker. 9-11, as far as I can tell, was the only incident in which terrorists or hijackers killed passengers or anyone other than themselves on a commercial air flight. Obviously, any of these incidents could have resulted is mass casualties. The fact remains that most commercial air acts of terrorism do not involve religious issues.

    EDIT: Will anyone admit to being surprised at that result?
    Actually I wasn't trying to make a point. I was just wondering if you had any evidence to back up the position of strip searching old ladies, while 17 to 40 year old Muslims skip onto the plane. As far as I can tell, you didn't make a case for that position.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    Actually I wasn't trying to make a point. I was just wondering if you had any evidence to back up the position of strip searching old ladies, while 17 to 40 year old Muslims skip onto the plane. As far as I can tell, you didn't make a case for that position.
    None of the hijackers or terrorists on airplanes in the last ten years has been an old lady. However, the men have ranged from juveniles to middle aged, included Christians, Jews and Muslims, and come in every color and many nationalities. In areas where suicide bombings are more common, the early cases all involved men. As men became the object of greater scrutiny, women and children were recruited. By the way, the case that needs to be made is the case for focusing on Muslim men aged 17-40. The events in my list disprove that profile completely.
    Last edited by YardleyLabs; 01-22-2010 at 10:19 PM.

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