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Thread: Marines pulling out of Iraq

  1. #11
    Senior Member K G's Avatar
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    We've got "advisors" in hot spots all over the world. When Eisenhower was President, we had 900 advisors there. By 1963, we had 16,000 military personnel in Vietnam. We all know what happened when LBJ became President....

    I only mentioned Vietnam to keep this thread from going off the deep end about "unnecessary" wars....a little "perspective" if you will. At least the Iran conflict has had a different ending...so far....

    k g
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    McNamara influenced LBJ's decision to escalate in Vietnam.

    Side note on McNamara was that he pressured JFK to support the liberation troops at the Bay Of Pigs. Kenndy approved, NcNamara said "go" and then JFK chickened out. To save face, JFK allowed a tidal wave of Political Refugees to enter the USA.

    One has to wonder how many Political Refugees the USA will have to take in from Iraq and A'stan when they fall and they will after we leave. Those in support of the USA will feel thier live's threatened. Much like what happened with the fall of Vietnam and the fall of the Shah of Iran when we took in over a million Iranian refugees.

    P S

    No Conservative would have invaded another country with the intent of "Nation Building". When no WMD's were found, we should have gotten the hell out!
    Last edited by Franco; 01-23-2010 at 05:10 PM.
    The Libertarian Party believes that all persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. A call for the repeal of the income tax, abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We support the passage of a "Balanced Budget Amendment" to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes. LP.org

  3. #13
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Perry View Post
    ...Maybe we should thank Bush for a war that has lasted longer than WWI & WWII combined?
    In case you have been sleeping, WWII is still going on. We still occupy both Germany and Japan.
    subroc

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  4. #14
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    I realize this may be before your time, but it was Harry S. that got us into that "conflict" in Korea.

    I remember it well, when he declared "I hate to send these young men abroad, when they should be out finding one on their own!"

    UB
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Matt McKenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Perry View Post
    For starting the needless war? For over 5,000 of our armed forces killed there? Maybe we should thank Bush for a war that has lasted longer than WWI & WWII combined?
    Longer than WWI and WWII combined and only 5000 killed (many not in combat)? What you are watching is the end of the most efficient war in U.S. History in regards to loss of American lives.
    Just sayin'
    Matt McKenzie

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  6. #16
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    P S

    No Conservative would have invaded another country with the intent of "Nation Building". When no WMD's were found, we should have gotten the hell out!
    Huh? The other day, in another thread, you listed two contemporary examples of whom you claim to be traditional conservatives; Dr. Charles Krauthammer and Jonah Goldberg. They both, very publically and very enthusiastically, supported the invasion and rebuilding of Iraq. So are they no longer conservatives or do conservative sometimes favor nation building?

    FWIW, Krauthammer and Goldberg, along with Mark Steyn, are three of my favorite columnists. I rarely find anything to disagree with them about. I also really enjoy Camille Paglia and Christopher Hitchens.
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    When have Conservatives always agreed with one another?

    Both writers/commentators backed the search in Iraq for WMD’s, as I did. Where they failed their Conservative principles was in backing Nation Building. One would think we would have learned the lesson of Vietnam. The lesson that we can’t make a people be something that they don’t want to be.

    The National Review is the finest publication in print today but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with everything they say. Conservatism is an ideology that has certain principles. Though those principles have been maligned through talk radio, Nation Building is not one of those ideals. And, we can’t compare Germany and Japan to Iraq and A’stan. WW2 was not fought over religion but aggression by military governments. We were lucky in both Germany and Japan because neither country was held captive by religious beliefs. We needed to be in Germany because of the Cold War and in Japan, the people actual wanted our help and embraced it. Don’t forget that we have also limited their abilities to rebuild their militaries and we have taken on the roll of protecting them. Not a perfect plan by Conservative principles but because it has served our purposes, I can live with it.

    But, it won’t work in areas where the people live with a 12th Century mindset where they truly hate us. They may love our money but don’t ever think for a moment that either, Iraq or A’stan will be long term allies.
    Last edited by Franco; 01-24-2010 at 08:24 AM.
    The Libertarian Party believes that all persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. A call for the repeal of the income tax, abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We support the passage of a "Balanced Budget Amendment" to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes. LP.org

  8. #18
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hookset View Post
    Longer than WWI and WWII combined and only 5000 killed (many not in combat)? What you are watching is the end of the most efficient war in U.S. History in regards to loss of American lives.
    Just sayin'

    Exactly....how many were lost in Normandy alone?
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hookset View Post
    Longer than WWI and WWII combined and only 5000 killed (many not in combat)? What you are watching is the end of the most efficient war in U.S. History in regards to loss of American lives.
    Just sayin'
    Now there is something to hang your hat on.

    How much money was wasted over there? Were we "EFFICIENT"on that score also?
    I'll ask about money because by your logic the 5000 lives lost was "EFFICIENT"

    Also what goals were accomplished through that "EFFICIENT" loss of lives?

    I'm sure that is comforting to all of the family members of those 5,000 who lost their lives to know that they lost their loved ones in an "EFFICIENT" war

  10. #20
    Senior Member Art Geddes's Avatar
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    World War 2 may be over, but we are still in Germany and Japan and Italy. Korea over? We are still in Korea. We are all over the globe. Success is not measured by how quickly we pull out and abandon a region.

    Art

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