Marines pulling out of Iraq

[K G]

I think I read years ago that JFK had no intention of escalating our presence there. LBJ was the one to thank.

JFK put the first "advisors" and troops there...LBJ, thanks to Robert McNamara, took it to the "next level." Iraq was a cakewalk in comparison, with results that will actually do some good in the long run.

Vietnam...not so much...

k g

[road kill]

JFK put the first "advisors" and troops there...LBJ, thanks to Robert McNamara, took it to the "next level." Iraq was a cakewalk in comparison, with results that will actually do some good in the long run.

Vietnam...not so much...

k g

I believe Eisenhower sent the first troops there, though in an advisory/exploratory Capacity.

"In addition, Eisenhower explored the option of supporting the French colonial forces in Vietnam who were fighting an independence insurrection there. In 1953, Eisenhower sent Lt. General John W. "Iron Mike" O'Daniel to Vietnam to study and "assess" the French forces therein.[49] Chief of Staff Matthew Ridgway dissuaded the President from intervening by presenting a comprehensive estimate of the massive military deployment that would be necessary. However, later in 1954, Eisenhower did offer military and economic aid to the new nation of South Vietnam.[50] In the years that followed, the number of US military advisors in South Vietnam increased due to North Vietnam's support of "uprisings" in the south and concern the nation would fall.[50]"

This was due to his relationship with DeGaulle and the French's disastorous embarrassment in Indochina I belive.




rk

[K G]

We've got "advisors" in hot spots all over the world. When Eisenhower was President, we had 900 advisors there. By 1963, we had 16,000 military personnel in Vietnam. We all know what happened when LBJ became President....

I only mentioned Vietnam to keep this thread from going off the deep end about "unnecessary" wars....a little "perspective" if you will. At least the Iran conflict has had a different ending...so far....

k g

[Franco]

McNamara influenced LBJ's decision to escalate in Vietnam.

Side note on McNamara was that he pressured JFK to support the liberation troops at the Bay Of Pigs. Kenndy approved, NcNamara said "go" and then JFK chickened out. To save face, JFK allowed a tidal wave of Political Refugees to enter the USA.

One has to wonder how many Political Refugees the USA will have to take in from Iraq and A'stan when they fall and they will after we leave. Those in support of the USA will feel thier live's threatened. Much like what happened with the fall of Vietnam and the fall of the Shah of Iran when we took in over a million Iranian refugees.

P S

No Conservative would have invaded another country with the intent of "Nation Building". When no WMD's were found, we should have gotten the hell out!

[subroc]

...Maybe we should thank Bush for a war that has lasted longer than WWI & WWII combined?

In case you have been sleeping, WWII is still going on. We still occupy both Germany and Japan.

[Uncle Bill]

I realize this may be before your time, but it was Harry S. that got us into that "conflict" in Korea.

I remember it well, when he declared "I hate to send these young men abroad, when they should be out finding one on their own!"

UB

[Matt McKenzie]

For starting the needless war? For over 5,000 of our armed forces killed there? Maybe we should thank Bush for a war that has lasted longer than WWI & WWII combined?

Longer than WWI and WWII combined and only 5000 killed (many not in combat)? What you are watching is the end of the most efficient war in U.S. History in regards to loss of American lives.
Just sayin'

[Hew]

P S

No Conservative would have invaded another country with the intent of "Nation Building". When no WMD's were found, we should have gotten the hell out!

Huh? The other day, in another thread, you listed two contemporary examples of whom you claim to be traditional conservatives; Dr. Charles Krauthammer and Jonah Goldberg. They both, very publically and very enthusiastically, supported the invasion and rebuilding of Iraq. So are they no longer conservatives or do conservative sometimes favor nation building?

FWIW, Krauthammer and Goldberg, along with Mark Steyn, are three of my favorite columnists. I rarely find anything to disagree with them about. I also really enjoy Camille Paglia and Christopher Hitchens.

[Franco]

When have Conservatives always agreed with one another?

Both writers/commentators backed the search in Iraq for WMD’s, as I did. Where they failed their Conservative principles was in backing Nation Building. One would think we would have learned the lesson of Vietnam. The lesson that we can’t make a people be something that they don’t want to be.

The National Review is the finest publication in print today but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with everything they say. Conservatism is an ideology that has certain principles. Though those principles have been maligned through talk radio, Nation Building is not one of those ideals. And, we can’t compare Germany and Japan to Iraq and A’stan. WW2 was not fought over religion but aggression by military governments. We were lucky in both Germany and Japan because neither country was held captive by religious beliefs. We needed to be in Germany because of the Cold War and in Japan, the people actual wanted our help and embraced it. Don’t forget that we have also limited their abilities to rebuild their militaries and we have taken on the roll of protecting them. Not a perfect plan by Conservative principles but because it has served our purposes, I can live with it.

But, it won’t work in areas where the people live with a 12th Century mindset where they truly hate us. They may love our money but don’t ever think for a moment that either, Iraq or A’stan will be long term allies.

[badbullgator]

Longer than WWI and WWII combined and only 5000 killed (many not in combat)? What you are watching is the end of the most efficient war in U.S. History in regards to loss of American lives.
Just sayin'

Exactly....how many were lost in Normandy alone?