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which one is more difficult in the hunt test game for the dog

which one is more difficult in HT'S AKC UKC/HRC NAHRA

4K views 30 replies 21 participants last post by  mostlygold 
#1 ·
just wondering wat everybodys opinion was on which one is more difficult for the dog to pass?
 
#2 ·
I really wish we had the little popcorn smilie :lol:

This is always a controversial topic and, for many at least, their opinion will be related to what event they participate in. It is also subjective as some feel that AKC, because it tends to be more technical, is harder while others believe NAHRA and/or HRC are harder because it more resembles a "hunting" situation.

I chose not to vote :cool:
 
#4 ·
I will be running akc and nahra (master and senior) this summer...I will let you know then, what I think.

Juli
 
#6 ·
I have seen some very challenging NAHRA senior tests... diversions are not uncommon, neither are hot blinds. I think one could surmise that NAHRA is more difficult in that they require more training (trailing, and quartering w/sit to flush - which could include working the field with another dog and handler)..As far as marks go, I've seen difficult in both venues (as a spectator)....

Juli
 
#7 ·
Can't speak to NAHRA as I've never had the opportunity to run it. But an AKC master pass requires more work than an HRC finished pass. 2 single and a double blind vs 2 single blinds, 3 series v 2. Degree of difficulty of the individual components depends on the dog's training and the handler's ability. Some can't seem to handle the steadiness and no talking thing at AKC, and some can't handle the gun and the dog at the same time at HRC.
As to which title has more "meaning?" Not going there. Nothing there anyway.
 
#13 ·
Can't speak to NAHRA as I've never had the opportunity to run it. But an AKC master pass requires more work than an HRC finished pass. 2 single and a double blind vs 2 single blinds, 3 series v 2. Degree of difficulty of the individual components depends on the dog's training and the handler's ability. Some can't seem to handle the steadiness and no talking thing at AKC, and some can't handle the gun and the dog at the same time at HRC.
As to which title has more "meaning?" Not going there. Nothing there anyway.
what do you mean by nothing there anyway?
 
#8 ·
I never could figure out the need for a double blind... what does it show? If you set up one good (challenging) blind, that should give you the answers you need.... A dog that slips whistles on the first blind, is probably going to slip whistles on the second (or other) blinds.

anyone care to share their thoughts on this?

Juli
 
#9 ·
I never could figure out the need for a double blind... what does it show? If you set up one good (challenging) blind, that should give you the answers you need.... A dog that slips whistles on the first blind, is probably going to slip whistles on the second (or other) blinds.

anyone care to share their thoughts on this?

Juli
This is not generally the point of a double blind. The intent is to use the 1st blind to influence the 2nd in some way that makes control on the 2nd blind more diifficult having run the first blind, i.e., the 1st blind sets-up the 2nd.
 
#11 ·
Is this poll intended as an across the board difficulty or just the highest level?

The following is an intentional generalization - In my opinion, having never run HRC events, AKC is generally more difficult than NAHRA at each level. However, at the top levels, dogs that aren't trained to quarter, be steady to flush and shot and also trail will have a tough time passing a NAHRA Senior test. Conversely, dogs that are not trained on technical marks and blinds and only run NAHRA Senior may experience difficulty with AKC Master set ups.

Having run Master and NAHRA Senior, I can attest that neither is easy and that both are very rewarding to earn ribbons (especially here in the Land of the low pass rates).

Also, as stated before, I have no experience with HRC but have heard from many folks that I respect that the HRC Grand is the toughest title to obtain.

Travis
 
#12 ·
In the words of LVL "It Depends" :D I choose not to vote, I like all of them and they are all challenging depending on which dog gets off the truck at which test ;)
 
#14 ·
Pretty biased poll.... First you need to know how many on this forum have even run all three to provide a comparison. Otherwise it's just a vote for what you think or what you heard on the grapevine.... :2c:
 
#15 · (Edited)
I've run 'em all and have MH, UH-HRCH, & MHR's.

I prefer: real hunting, training, then the games. And I like some aspects of each of the games - if the judges have set sound tests and the club has good help. In fact, I like a small Qual with good judging, too.

I'd say you asked the wrong question. The right one is: Which is more fun (or rewarding) for YOU and your pooch?

BTW: I didn't vote.
 
#16 ·
I have run them all plus CKC Master...as well as a slew of Field Trials
note..CKC master requires a quarter and sit to flush

order of difficulty

CKC/AKC similar...most difficult

UKC/HRC next most difficult

NAHRA huge variations test to test but generally not marked as hard and tests not as challenging.
 
#17 ·
In our region the technical difficulty of the marks and blinds would be AKC/HT, NAHRA, then HRC and the most variation by far would be AKC.

But it's a little bit of an apples and orange crates comparison. Also, if the tests are sound, I like 'em all. If the tests are flawed or scored on "chicken $h%t", it may be difficult to get a ribbon, but not the "difficult" I'd go home and train on...
 
#18 ·
I also did not vote. This is not a more difficult/less difficult thing, simply different ways of testing your dog.

I have run AKC HT, AKC FT and HRC tests at all levels. I will be attempting to run NAHRA Senior tests next year.

My opinion is that AKC HT have become too technical in many respects and that many of the tests are set up as "pass/fail" rather than "assess" the retriever's abilities. They may be considered "harder" as they have 3 series instead of 2. Some dogs ramp up with each series and may be out of control by the 3rd series. Some dogs lose their edge and may be flat by the 3rd series. The judging is very inconsistent as are the test set ups. There seems to be, in some parts of the country, a "can you top this mentality" when it comes to setting up tests.

HRC appears to have more realistic hunting situation set ups and some checks and balances with the committee approving the test according to the rules. However, I have only run HRC tests for 3 years (vs 20 yrs for AKC) so I have only see a dozen or so tests set up. You have to train for the no calls, no shots from stations and your dog must have better line manners than much of what is allowed in AKC. Also you as a handler have to be comfortable and competent with a gun. Not everyone is and that can be a handicap to your dog. The marks and blinds I have seen are comparable to a good AKC test set up, but judges appear to judge the entire blind in an HRC test. In other words, if the dog screws up some in the beginning but recovers and does a nice job afterwards, he is judged as having done the blind. I do not see this as much in AKC (again pass/fail vs assess).

I have read much of the NAHRA rules and regulations, but have not seen or run their tests. They sound like a lot of fun. There is definetely more training as far as the sit to flush and trailing goes. These tests appear to judge a well rounded upland and waterfowl retriever more than the other 2 do. I know HRC has an UH test, but NAHRA combines them both, so the dog has to be able complete all parts of the test in the same day. As I hunt both upland and waterfowl with my dogs, I think I will enjoy this venue.

Regards
Dawn
 
#19 ·
NAHRA requires a more well rounded dog as Julie mentioned...

I am a "NAHRA Guy" so in effort to not sound biased I will say that the level of difficulty probably varies more test to test/judge to judge WITHIN an organization then BETWEEN the organizations.

From what i have seen and been told. AKC requires a higher standard for line manners and tend to be more technical. HRC is going to require a dog that will swing with a gun and have teh gun going off right beside them (and ear plugs) NAHRA you gotta have a well rounded dog that will do things independently and then come right back under control
 
#20 ·
NAHRA does require an 80% overall score to pass.....

Juli
 
#21 ·
Mostlygold


Welcome and I am sure you will have a good time. Be sure to plan on the banquet, maybe some tailgating, and some really good dog work.
 
#22 ·
Hunting is hunting and Testing is testing..... With that said :

AKC is the least realistic (who doesn't talk quietly to their dog when hunting)
HRC is the most realistic (gotta love the shooting from the line)
NAHRA is the most complete (Quartering - Steady to flush - Scent Trail)



.
 
#23 ·
I have run a lot of NAHRA and AKC, but had never ever heard of HRC before I joined this forum, so have no opinion there. As to AKC and NAHRA, my opinion is that AKC has more technical marks and blinds, almost mini FT concepts, while NAHRA is more random hunting style.

I put MHs on all of the dogs that I campained in AKC, but I prefer the more low key atmosphere and general hunty feel of NAHRA with their quartering and trailing. I haven't run AKC HT in a long time, but when I did, it seemed like they were really putting a lot of emphasis on steady dog in breaking scenarios. At least that's the way it felt to me with one of my dogs being very calm but not hugely talented earning his MH with ease and my much better marking, blind running and general bird finder breaking eight times in a row until we fixed that problem.

Again my vote goes to AKC as being the hardest, but not most fun for dog and handler.

John
 
#29 ·
John feel free to try HRC, it is now in MT thru Missouri HeadWater gun dog club. We will be having our second hunt the end of July in Twin Bridges.
 
#24 · (Edited)
I have run both NAHRA and AKC. And I will agree with others on here that have said, it depends.

Example in NAHRA you will see more running out of boats, decoys - both water and land, and the whole upland sit to flush thing.

In AKC you will see longer, harder technical marks mixed with harder blinds - typically not many decoys and I don't think I have ever seen a boat yet. Did see a goose blind chair once. It was pretty cool. They had the running handler and the honoring handler both in them pretty close to each other.

Sorry....didn't vote.
 
#25 ·
Didn't vote, all to subjective to give a definitive answer.
 
#27 ·
HRC has gotta be by far the hardest. Lord knows I ain't that good at making sure that my shirt and pants match (Terry sews little animals in them) no way I would EVER figure out if the hat and shoes clash or not.
Must take YEARS of practice and a load of talent to make sure that everything is color coordinated and properly tailored.

Costume party regards

Bubba
 
#31 ·
Bubba

Sounds like your are camo fashion challenged. I'm sure the nice people at Cabela's or Bass Pro could help you our there. Shame a fine fella like you feels he won't blend in.
 
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