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Thread: College Exam... :)

  1. #31
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    Good lord, is ALPHA OMEGA back?
    So, was there something in there that you disagreed with, or were you just looking to make a personal attack?
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post
    Do you agree that medicare and social security are a large reason for the deficit and size of the budget? Yes, so lets remove the cap on payroll taxes. That would probablly alleviate the problem, but can't do that, because that is raising taxes, and lets don't forget that you think that you paid for your medicare and social security. You might want check the math on that, because I pretty sure you have not contributed enough to cover feeding and caring for you until you die and quit complaining.
    The last time I checked SS was an FDR program, Medicare was an LBJ program & Precription Drugs was a Bush II program. All mandated by the Government &/or structured such that if you do not participate the hospitals are going to pick your pocket.

    I participated in SS as a paperboy & as a teen ager enough that it wiped out all my low earning years. Beginning when I graduated from the UW I have always made more than the max, & retired in 93 at age 62. As you are a UC attendee, tell the audience how much would I have had in my account had the government invested in 30 years bonds at the going rate each year, instead of spending it? I believe it would be a very significant amount .

    Quote Originally Posted by eildydar View Post
    I hope to never need medicare or SS because i will have been responsible enough to save and pay my own way through retirement, and not rely on the little that people get from SS because they were either not smart enough or (and the more likely case) they were promised they wouldn't need to and now are finding out just how big of a lie that is.
    Actually I like Medicare, I'm not sick a lot as we watch what we input. The PD program is something I never expected, we actually pay more for the insurance than we receive in benefits. The only things I have had major was a 6 repair bypass at 65 & a Rotator Cuff last month. Huge bills, bargained down to 10-20%, think of what someone without insurance, capable of paying, will have to deal with.

    You have to realize that if you do not sign up there is no buffer between you & the medical people. It can get Very Expensive.
    Last edited by Marvin S; 02-15-2010 at 09:28 PM.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Marvin S;567638]The last time I checked SS was an FDR program, Medicare was an LBJ program & Precription Drugs was a Bush II program. All mandated by the Government &/or structured such that if you do not participate the hospitals are going to pick your pocket.

    I participated in SS as a paperboy & as a teen ager enough that it wiped out all my low earning years. Beginning when I graduated from the UW I have always made more than the max, & retired in 93 at age 62. As you are a UC attendee, tell the audience how much would I have had in my account had the government invested in 30 years bonds at the going rate each year, instead of spending it? I believe it would be a very significant amount .

    You would have lost your ass investing in 30 year treasuries at 32 years of age, because of the loss of purchasing power of the dollar. For example, lets assume you invested in 30 year zero coupon bonds based on a 5% coupon and you paid $227 per bond at inception, thus meaning at age 62 your bonds paid you a $1,000, an actual dollar return of $773 per bond, however, when you take into account inflation at and average annual rate of 3%, you would have had to invest $550 at 32 to have the same buying power, therefore you lost $323 on every bond you purchased do to inflation. You can check my math if you like!

    So lets say you invested $227,000 at age 32 to keep the numbers round and simple, you would have a $1,000,000 at age 62. However, your purchasing power is only $412,000 when compared to when you made the investment, a difference in purchasing power is $588,000.

    This agument of if the government had left it in a fund and not used it for other things, is bullshit or misleading, because inflation has eaten up most of it. I'm not saying that the government does not waste money, I'm saying that over the years, adjustments of what was being paid in were needed in order to fund it, and they weren't because raising taxes is unpopular and will not get you re-elected. This doesn't even account for people living longer, advances in medicine that are very expensive.

    This hard ass thinking of I pay my way and you pay yours is fine as long as you don't need anybody, but get cancer of something equally as bad and pay for it with what you set aside 30 years ago and you might end up a little short, therefore, be thankful that they are taken a healthly chunk of my earnings too, to take care of your non-charitable ass.

    Sorry it has taken so long for me to reply, I been playing with my dogs.

  4. #34
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Marvin S

    I'm sorry I was a little harsh on my response to you, I was mixing you up with what someone else said too.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Sambo, I hate to show my ignorance, but I have a question.

    You do an investment at 5%. Inflation is 3%. You gain gross 5% annually. You loose purchasing power on that 5% gain at 3% annually. So, net you gain 2% annually, right?

    So, your purchasing power was 227k 30 years ago, but after inflation, your investment account with the $1,000,000 has the purchasing power of $412 back at the time the investment was made, 30 years ago.

    Do I have this right? If so, the gain was minimal, but there still was a gain, wasn't there? After 30 years, you have somewhat less than double the purchasing power of your initial investment.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

    Raven - Moneybird's Black Magic Marker***
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    Mick - Moneybird's Jumpin' Jack Flash***
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    Peerless - Moneybird's Sole Survivor
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  6. #36
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Buzz your thinking is right on the coupon if its was being paid semi-annually, but wrong on the initial investment that you will not get back for 30 years.

    I did the math on a zero coupon to keep it simple, but had the investment been a $1,000 bond with a 5% coupon for 30 years, you would have lost 3% of the coupon earned plus 3% inflation compounded for 30 years on the initial investment when it was paid back to you 30 years later. Your purchasing power of the $1,000 30 years later would be $1,000/1+3%^30 or $412.

    Hope this helps

  7. #37
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post
    Buzz your thinking is right on the coupon if its was being paid semi-annually, but wrong on the initial investment that you will not get back for 30 years.

    I did the math on a zero coupon to keep it simple, but had the investment been a $1,000 bond with a 5% coupon for 30 years, you would have lost 3% of the coupon earned plus 3% inflation compounded for 30 years on the initial investment when it was paid back to you 30 years later. Your purchasing power of the $1,000 30 years later would be $1,000/1+3%^30 or $412.

    Hope this helps
    Ok, I see what you're getting at. Thanks.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

    Raven - Moneybird's Black Magic Marker***
    (Esprit's Power Play x Trumarc's Lean Cuisine)
    Mick - Moneybird's Jumpin' Jack Flash***
    (Clubmead's Road Warrior x Oakdale Whitewater Devil Dog)
    Peerless - Moneybird's Sole Survivor
    (Two River's Lucky Willie x Moneybird's Black Magic Marker)

  8. #38
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    The actual inflation adjusted return would be $228.68 or $7.62 per year or 0.75% annual return. You are right you would make a little bit on it, very little. And if inflation ran higher than 3% on average the return could be negative.

  9. #39
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    When SS is flat broke when I am ready to collect, how much will I receive?




    Nada...


    And I will have lost how much out of my paychecks throughout my working years?



    A lot...

  10. #40
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    SS has been broke (without funds) for a long time and our moms and dads are still getting paid. However, they did not want to pay to make sure it was fully funded either. So don't worry, some how you will get paid back much more than you put in as long as you don't die too soon.

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