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Thread: Even more stimulas money going......

  1. #1
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Default Even more stimulas money going......

    Out of the USA........

    ATLANTA -- Windmill farms are popping up all over the United States. President Obama wants it to continue.
    In last month he said, "the nation that leads the clean energy economy will be the nation that leads the global economy".
    The President set aside millions of stimulus dollars for green initiatives as part of last year's American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. Since then, the government has handed out $1.7 billion dollars into the wind power industry. But, the big news is where the money is going. America's new "green rush" has turned into a 21st century "gold rush" for other countries.
    "Foreign companies are looking at the U.S. and are seeing a really great opportunity," said Russ Choma of America University. His investigation, along with a U.S. Senate report found more than a billion dollars going to foreign-owned energy companies. It's because they dominate the field of manufacturing the turbines and other equipment for windmill farms.
    "The big problem we see with the legislation...is that there's nothing that says what you have to do with the money once you receive it. The hope is that you will re-invest it in the U.S., but there's nothing that obligates you to do so", Choma said.
    The Spanish-based company Iberdrola has gotten $443 million in stimulus funds so far. The Portugal-based company E.D.P. has gotten $229 million. The British-based company Terra Firma is getting $42 million. It bought the Highland Wind Farm in western Pennsylvania from an American company just days before the stimulus awards were announced last year.
    Jared Bernstein is the economist overseeing the stimulus money. Channel 2 Action News asked him about the green stimulus money.
    "The resources in the Recovery Act are, of course, intended for domestic production - domestic jobs right here in the United States", he said.
    Still, he acknowledged green money is moving out of the country. "There may be some, but we put "buy America" provisions in the Recovery Act that stresses the importance of spending these dollars here to create employment in America."
    We learned the "buy America" provision only applies to public works programs, like the new Mitchell Street Bridge about to be built in Downtown Atlanta. The wind program is considered a private endevour.
    The industry defends itself with job numbers, but Russ Choma says the reality is, they're not creating many U.S. jobs. The construction to build the windmill farms usually are temporary. The manufacturing jobs are limited.
    In 2006, the Spanish-based company Gamesa opened a plant in Western Pennsylvania hiring 238 employees. In November 2009, the company laid off half of his workforce, citing the bad economy.
    Right now, many leaders in the United States are growing concerned stimulus money may be used for manufacturing jobs in China. It has just raced past Europe to become the world's leading manufacturer of wind turbines. A proposal for a Texas project using turbines primarily made in China, is requesting $450 million in stimulus funds.
    "I think this is a major mistake", said Phil Kerpan from Americans for Prosperity. He believes this is just another example of an overall flawed stimulus plan.
    "We were opposed to this from the very beginning because we don't feel government spending can stimulate the economy", he said. "It has been a gross misuse of taxpayer money across the board."
    Copyright 2010 by WSBTV.com.
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

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    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Seems like it would have been such a simple thing to add that use of the $ would require employing US workers? Or is that too simple a concept for our Congressmen to absorb?
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    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    There are provisions for "Buy American" for public projects like bridges and roads. But there is nothing in there to require privately owned projects to "Buy American" and wind projects are considered privately funded, although public money is being used as incentives.

    When I worked at Siemens, we designed wind generators in conjunction with the Germans. We costed building them in the USA and in Germany. We could not compete with companies that were building equipment in eastern block countries that were formerly part of the USSR, or with Chinese manufacturers. Their prices were half of our break even price. Manufacturing is dead or dying in this country.
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    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post

    Manufacturing is dead or dying in this country.
    Because of Labor Unions?
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  5. #5
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    There are provisions for "Buy American" for public projects like bridges and roads. But there is nothing in there to require privately owned projects to "Buy American" and wind projects are considered privately funded, although public money is being used as incentives.

    When I worked at Siemens, we designed wind generators in conjunction with the Germans. We costed building them in the USA and in Germany. We could not compete with companies that were building equipment in eastern block countries that were formerly part of the USSR, or with Chinese manufacturers. Their prices were half of our break even price. Manufacturing is dead or dying in this country.
    Well what a great way to bring manufacturing and jobs back to the USA than with stimulus money. This is money that was given to these projects by us and was supposed to be used to create jobs HERE, not overseas. While it is true that currently it is cheaper to get these things built overseas, it seems to me paying more for them to be built here would be more in line with what this money was meant to do. Hard to believe there is not some enterprising company out there in the USA that would not be happy to take a big chunk of porkulas money and start up a manufacturing company. It would be a big cost, but one that would be greatly offset, if not entirely, covered by the taxpayer thus creating new jobs and industry.
    I am not big on subsidies in most cases, but using stimulus money to subsidize a start up manufacturing company seems a far better use of the money than sending it to china
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

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    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Because of Labor Unions?
    I guess we could go back to being slaves and they could call you BOY and then we could compete again!

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    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, the fact is that relative to other parts of the world, the US is no longer competitive as a manufacturer. Blaming this on unuons produces nice sound bytes, but misses the point. There was a time when higher salaries were supported by higher productivity. However, as the rest of the world became more productive, we didn't keep pace. Often, as with steel mills, the fault had nothing to do with labor but with a failure to invest in updated plants. Without substantial incentives, I do not think the private sector is going to do anything that will change this situation. While portectionism, in the form of higher import tariffs, may sound like a good fix, history suggests that it actually makes the problem worse by suppressing trade while capital still moves freely. I do not believe that there are any short term solutions. Longer term solutons depend on several factors: reducing corporate involvement in financing social welfare programs such as health benefits and retirements programs as part of the cost of labor, improving the capabilities of labor through better educational programs, providing incentives for updating production facilities to improve productivity, etc. In the absence of such actions, the problem is being addressed in the old fashioned way. The effective salaries paid for American labor are going down relative to other countries. As the cost and value of American labor gets closer to the costs in other countries, the outflow of jobs will stop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Because of Labor Unions?
    Actually, private sector labor unions are probably less than 20% of that work force. The labor unions that are killing us costwise, are the public sector unions, their influence in the Demococratic Party & among RINO's-RINDIP's, over legislation & prevailing wage.
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    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post

    The effective salaries paid for American labor are going down relative to other countries. As the cost and value of American labor gets closer to the costs in other countries, the outflow of jobs will stop.
    I'm not so sure of that because of the Entitlement Mentality that owns much of the USA. As long as we subsidize unemployment, why should the unemployed work for less than what the Feds are willing to pay folks to stay on thier porch?

    We've seen what Organized Labor has done to the domestic Auto Mfg. industy making them uncompetitive.

    I'm not suggesting sweat shops, but we do have a high minimum wage compared to the rest of the world. Yet, with 10% unemployment there is still no incentive for many to go to work and there are many jobs to be had.
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  10. #10
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    Franco,

    when was the last time you actually produced something? you know, a tool, or a piece of manufacturing machinery or durable goods?

    i happen to believe that your chosen line of work is a big part of our economy's problem. why work towards making something better or cheaper if you can bombard the consumer with catchy phrases and get them to buy an inferior product that an american company is having manufactured overseas?

    your advertisers are spending huge sums of money that could be used to modernize manufacturing processes, production facilities, and fuel innovative research that would result in the U.S. being better able to compete with foreign manufacturers. instead they buy advertising and send REAL jobs overseas.

    i know it's fun to union-bash, but the reality is that worker's wages are a small fraction of the manufacturing industries' costs of operation.

    as a nation, we need to depend less on fossil fuels. we need to expand our nuclear power capabilities and tap the wind, sun, and tides. and we need to do it with american machinery built in America.

    i would love to see you live on minimum wage for 6 months. just you. no dependants. bet you would have a diffrent song to sing then.-Paul
    Last edited by paul young; 02-11-2010 at 11:19 AM.
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