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Thread: A what if or When if question

  1. #31
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Can't say I have an issue with that want lower taxes but the Tea Baggers are not the Holy Innocents that you portray them to be. If they are preaching civil war, insurrection, secession, and other mayhem because they want war and government for free, they are not of this planet. They are just another source of rectal discomfort.

    If you choose to focus on who the “Tea Party” movement really is, you will focus on a group of United States citizens that is advocating lower taxes.

    If you choose to focus on the half truths, fringe elements, or sound bites that the left wing media, and extreme radical left wing groups use to characterize them, you can paint them any way you want, truth be damned.

    No need to be honest with yourself.
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  2. #32
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Can't say I have an issue with that want lower taxes but the Tea Baggers are not the Holy Innocents that you portray them to be. If they are preaching civil war, insurrection, secession, and other mayhem because they want war and government for free, they are not of this planet. They are just another source of rectal discomfort.
    Keep on kidding yourself this way. You are doing the exact same thing all the arrogant politicians have been doing. Looking down on the "average American". Politicians who keep their heads in the sand and ridicule the majority of Americans will find themselves out of office wondering what happened.
    Bill Davis

  3. #33
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    I believe that the US should respond overwhelmingly if Iran launches an unproviked attack on Israel. I would provide no overt support to Israel for a first strike against Iran and would not reply aggressively if Iran launched a proportionate response against Israel following an unprovoked Israeli first strike. WSe must defend our ally, but we must not allow our ally to force us into a conflict we do not want. Any Israeli first strike would be in response to decades of Iranian provocation in the form of Iran's support of terror against Israel, and their pursuit of nukes in conjunction with a stated desire to destroy Israel.

    If I were Iran responding to a first strike by Israel or the US, I would use the event to consolidate my power within Iran. I would also launch an attack on US oil assets in the region. If US forces based in Saudi provided any support for the Israeli action, I would target oil fields in Saudi Arabia. Well, since we haven't had any military worth mentioning in Saudi Arabia since we closed down the airbase in 2003 I think you'd have to come up with another excuse. How's this one...Saudi Arabia so much wants to see Iran's nuke ambitions cut off at the knees that they have quietly and privately agreed to turn a blind eye to Israeli overflight of their kingdom to make it happen. Otherwise, I would target oil fields in/near Kurdish areas of Iraq to minimize the impact on Iraqi Shiyas. I would also act to restrict traffic through the Persian Gulf. If you'd like to review your navy from a glass bottom boat then sending them out into harms way in Gulf might be a good idea. Any action launched from Saudi Arabia would be replied to with attacks on Saudi oil. Finally, if I could target two reactors in Israel, or two specifically military targets, I would. You hit a nuclear reactor in Israel and that's tantamount to nuking them. Maybe any Iranian survivors can open a glass bead shop where your headquarters once stood (in about 75 years or so). I thought you said the Iranian regime was rational. Otherwise, I would basically ignore Israel and blame the entire action on the US. If things stop there, Iran has succeeded in inflicting immediate damage on the US economy. Iran has lost two enrichment facilities that are irrelevant to their economy and to their actual military strength. Their alliance with Russia and China will probably be strengthened and they will certainly be much stronger at home. If the US and Israel pursue additional action, there will be a long and expensive war with an uncertain outcome but guaranteed massive damage to all involved.

    If, by contrast, Iran accepts the destruction of its nuclear facilities without response, I suspect that the current government will be doomed. That is why I believe they will respond with force.

    For what it's worth, your hypothetical scenario is exactly what was played out in a recent simulation at Harvard. In that action, Iran attacked Saudi oil fields and the US ended up a major loser.
    .................
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  4. #34
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    If you choose to focus on who the “Tea Party” movement really is, you will focus on a group of United States citizens that is advocating lower taxes.

    If you choose to focus on the half truths, fringe elements, or sound bites that the left wing media, and extreme radical left wing groups use to characterize them, you can paint them any way you want, truth be damned.

    No need to be honest with yourself.
    Well, subroc, here's one for you!

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35416483...ew_york_times/
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  5. #35
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    Keep on kidding yourself this way. You are doing the exact same thing all the arrogant politicians have been doing. Looking down on the "average American". Politicians who keep their heads in the sand and ridicule the majority of Americans will find themselves out of office wondering what happened.
    Well, I'm a pretty average American and there is a lot to admire about those us of similar persuasion. But the Tea Baggers are not the "average American". Real Americans don't countenance secessionism, or insurrection against their country as a vehicle to achieve their agenda.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  6. #36
    Senior Member YardleyLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hew View Post
    Any Israeli first strike would be in response to decades of Iranian provocation in the form of Iran's support of terror against Israel, and their pursuit of nukes in conjunction with a stated desire to destroy Israel.
    There is always provocation and I have yet to see a situation where it didn't go both ways. First strike is first strike. If you want to go back in history, I'm not sure where you draw the statute of limitations. I mean, we still boycott Cuba for throwing out the Mafia. Where does our ouster of the elected government if Iran and our installation of the Shah fit into that equation? There are no white hats in the Middle East.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Hew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YardleyLabs View Post
    There are no white hats in the Middle East.
    That's the dang truth.
    I'll take the river down to still water and ride a pack of dogs.

  8. #38
    Senior Member subroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    your makin' my point!

    re-read above.
    subroc

    Article [I.]
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Article [II.]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  9. #39
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Well, I'm a pretty average American and there is a lot to admire about those us of similar persuasion. But the Tea Baggers are not the "average American". Real Americans don't countenance secessionism, or insurrection against their country as a vehicle to achieve their agenda.
    There are extreme views in any group, but most tea PARTIERS are not as you describe. By continuing to denigrate them, you only make yourself look ignorant.
    Bill Davis

  10. #40
    Senior Member Sundown49 aka Otey B's Avatar
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    Zeus, ratherthan reading what the media has to say about the "tea partiers" the next time they have a meeting in your area go see for yourself what they are advocating. Probably surprise you very much....
    My Dad said to me ."Son, a man just needs three things to be happy....A good dog, a good gun and a good wife.....Thank God I have all three
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