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Thread: How Labradors are Supposed to Look? (pics)

  1. #21
    Senior Member Sean H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiableLabs View Post
    I should have said one more thing --

    These pictures are from an age when dual champions were not only a possibility, they were a reality!

    -- Who went the wrong direction again?
    I doubt that any of the dogs pictured could be and FC or a CH today, much less both.
    Topform's B-2 Spirit MH

  2. #22
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    I think a better question may be: Who went the wrong direction more? We can not sit here and say that field line breeders have not lost some of the conformation. In my opinion, they have......just not nearly as much as the show lines have. We can all see that today's show lines are no where near those pictured in your excellent post.

    Did you post somewhere else that they since have also changed the breed standard, since that of 1930. I am not sure of the changes, but I thought they had, and based on that, it is my understanding that even those pictured from 1930 would not even meet today's standard....(then again, I may be completely wrong and very delirious).

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiableLabs View Post
    If there was any advantage to paying attention to form, ie. to chase a dual championship, I think they would pay more attention to form.

    But the only dual dogs nowadays work the other direction, they take dogs with show-form and prove they can do MH work. History says it should be the other way, we should take field-form, which is true to the function, and they should be competitive in conformation.

    But that would require a whole new paradigm of thinking in the breed's fancy.
    I thought dual champions only applied to FC / CH! Way back when, there were many CH / MH and today there are many CH / MH. Does not make them dual dogs. It just shows that they can be trained to meet the standard of the hunt test, no matter how slow they may be to retrieve those birds.....

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by david gibson View Post
    very good point. however, you do have to admit that little or no consideration is given to form by the field breeders. should the field line have no standard for conformation, and instead have an alternate "performance based" conformation?
    That's the way it already is and it has been that way for a long time. And I have no problem with that. The differences in the Field and Show are so far removed from each other they are de facto different breeds.

    [After all, if the dog doesn't do what it was originally bred to do, in my mind, isn't a "dog," it is something else.] And that something else in this case is called a Bench Dog. IMO- The the AKC show ring is doing an injustice to the Labrador breed.
    What its prominence suggest, and what all science confirms is that the dog is a creature of the nose- A. Horowitz.

  5. #25
    Senior Member SueLab's Avatar
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    I may be wrong (and have been many times), but AKC does NOT establish the breed standard...it is the Labrador club. Amnd who makes up the Labrador Club? When you have judges and people active in the breed club AND they produce dogs that do not look like the standard from 20 or even 30 years ago, what tyde lab is put up in the show? Bingo! Dogs that look like what the judges produce.

    I agree with Kevin totally. Search for the great conformation stud dog named Dickendall Arnold and then you convince me which side made the biggest move from beautiful labs from the 70's. And Kevin can help me with the name of the great yellow stud dog that was the stud from the 70's - compare him to other conformation dogs and field dogs... remember now, Shamrock Acres Light Brigade!
    Last edited by SueLab; 02-25-2010 at 01:15 PM.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SueLab View Post
    . Search for the great conformation stud dog named Dickendall Arnold and then you convince me which side made the biggest move from beautiful labs from the 70's. And Kevin can help me with the name of the great yellow stud dog that wasw the stud from the 70's - compare him to opther conformation dogs and field dogs...
    If that is the case, then wouldn't the question be, which side made the biggest move between the 30's (which is what the OP stated, based on Dual Champions), and the 70's, which you just mentioned?

    I think you can see that the move was made within that period, and it still fits in with the OP argument.....Just my opinion

  7. #27
    Senior Member Sundown49 aka Otey B's Avatar
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    I kind of like these dogs...
    My Dad said to me ."Son, a man just needs three things to be happy....A good dog, a good gun and a good wife.....Thank God I have all three
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  8. #28
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    I'm sure everyone gets tired of my posting this picture but as long as there is debate over the breed std I will continue to remind everyone that our field dogs today look much more like the DCs of 50-60 yrs ago than the bench dogs of today.

    David Didier, GA

  9. #29
    Senior Member 2tall's Avatar
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    Gee, the one on the far right looks a lot like Indy!
    Carol,
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  10. #30
    Senior Member AmiableLabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zman1001 View Post
    Did you post somewhere else that they since have also changed the breed standard, since that of 1930.
    It was revised as recently as 1994. Most changes have been for explanation purposes, few have been substantive. The substantive change in 1994 was related to size.

    I am not sure of the changes, but I thought they had, and based on that, it is my understanding that even those pictured from 1930 would not even meet today's standard....(then again, I may be completely wrong and very delirious).
    The problem with that argument is that the standard is open to interpretation. When the authors wrote "athletic," to conformation breeders today that says something completely different when they read it. If the authors envisioned the dogs pictured when they first wrote it, I believe they would be horrified by what wins in the conformation ring today.
    Last edited by AmiableLabs; 02-25-2010 at 01:42 PM.
    Kevin Walker

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